Hello All!

I recently have been taking my 4.5month old pup to the local protection club. They seem to be very knowledgeable people (have taken dogs from pups to PSA3 before). Apoc is very confident out there which they said was great. But unforunately even though we have been multiple times he is more interested in sniffing around then playing with a tug or anything along those lines - he is very drivey/loves to play tug at home but at the field no interest.

They recommended that I crate him A LOT more(he is out of the crate with me most of the day since I am at home during most of the day). They said that he need to be in the crate most of the day (cept for walks and very short play/tug times then right back in while he still wants to play) and this will make him more frustrated (less relaxed) I guess. Or something along those lines. They would like to work him in prey right now but if he is not interested in biting they cant really work him.

What are your thoughts on this/recommendations? Thanks for all your help. I think the crating will help and have started crating more... any other recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Mathew Solnik

I'm not sure I believe this "PREY MARINATING RECIPE" LOL

Joking aside.... I have heard this theory a time or two and personally I think it's BS

I do believe in keeping the tug sessions short and incremental but the whole story of putting pups in a crate longer will not bring out anything but separation anxiety. LOL

I had had pups psycho on biting before they were big enough to be crated.

And I'm sure if this was a true "recipe" in bringing out drives, some of these puppy mills would have the next BSP or WUSV championship snarling to get out his/her 200 Series crate. Haha!!!!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lorenzo, I beg to differ.

A crate does not create drive... but a crate does without a doubt produce a more well rested "ready to go" pup as oppose to a pup that have been lounging around all day doing its thing, then comes out to work and has that "yea, I can't be bothered, let me lay down.. I can play anytime I want" attitude.

I have a number of working dogs and 3 specifically if left to run their kennels all day long will be fagged out by the time they work,as they run their kennels constantly and a fagged out/tired dog IS going to show a lower drive base than one that has been confined and is full of beans raring to go!

It is not making drive, but it does build frustration, and boredom. It is helpful for borderline dogs.

I agree Jeff. It will in fact build frustration. I guess I should have clarified what I meant when I said it does not build drive. It doesn't.

What it may in fact do is just as Sammy explain - save the energy of a pup or dog that is flipping around all day then finally come out to work and then is FLAT.

Errrr Boderline well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. I'll tell you it wont work with a crapper dog; if the drive isnt there it isnt there.

AMEN TO THAT

I kennel my puppy the day I go to training for that evening. What was happening was "Erika" spent most of the day playing with my other two dogs and chaseing the evil squirrels or cats that dare enter our yard, then the kids would play with her. Those evenings she would fall asleep on the long down and took a nap while tied out with the other puppies for some tug work. After I started doing that and giving her gingersnaps for her car sickness she seems alot more energetic at training.

My pup has drive like this as well, I've tried so many things with him it would probably be less trouble to sell him and buy a new dog...however I would never forgive myself if I did such a cheap thing, which is why I'm holding on to him for dear life. Right now he is 6.5 months.

I've done the crate thing as well. He will stay for most of the day in the crate before I take him out to do drive work, and then back in the crate. Like they said, it doesn't 'create' drive, but at least you can rule out exhaustion on why the dog isn't working. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

What I do is I take him from the crate straight to the front yard or the field (which is right beside our house <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. At this point he'll be more interested in sniffing or playing. I make sure he's on a long leash then I leave him alone. I walk around playing with the ball/tug by myself and ignore him (no eye contact, no calling him, etc.) After a while he gets bored on his own and will start to play with me, in which case I start to intensify the action. I only take one tiny step from what we did last time before I take him back home and in a crate (i.e. no bites before, one bite now then put away...etc.) If I have someone with me we also throw the toys back and forth between ourselves, or run around chasing each other until the pup realizes how much fun he's missing out on if he doesn't join.

Another thing I try is to take my older dog, who'll ignore the pup while playing ball even if the pup wants to play with her. Then I play ball with her. The pup is first on a leash while he gets excited, he just wants to play with the older dog first. Then we let him go, he'll run up and try to play with her...she ignores him and keeps on playing ball with me. After a while the pup sees what we're doing, if he shows interest in chasing the ball and not my older dog, I throw the ball, and hold my other dog back while the pup chases the ball. Once he grabs it I praise him wildly and play tug with him/run him/etc. A couple times of this then we hold the pup back again and let him watch the other dog one or two more times, then it's back to the crate.

"Frustration builds drive" is what people are always telling me, so I keep this in mind. However I also learned you have to let the dog know how success feels like at first, so that there will be frustration in the end when he stops having so much success. So when playing tug it may be 'miss' then 'bite', then 'miss miss bite', etc. I was doing so many misses before I actually ended up making him lose interest...now I don't do that...oftentimes the first bite is an easy bite...then I make him work harder for it.

Only time will tell if these things can peak his drive, he is improving now, as before he had absolute zero interest in anything outside the house. The reason I stick with him is because he's a great dog on every other aspect, one hell of a tracker, with a really hard temperament to boot...plus in a room with no distractions he is quite drivey and gets really frustrated if he can't get the item (to the point of biting me), so I know he's 'hiding' something underneath. I just hope I'm not proven wrong. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Oh well...at least all this stuff is helping *me* learn.

 Quote:

My pup has drive like this as well, I've tried so many things with him it would probably be less trouble to sell him and buy a new dog...however I would never forgive myself if I did such a cheap thing, which is why I'm holding on to him for dear life. Right now he is 6.5 months.

I've done the crate thing as well. He will stay for most of the day in the crate before I take him out to do drive work, and then back in the crate. Like they said, it doesn't 'create' drive, but at least you can rule out exhaustion on why the dog isn't working. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

What I do is I take him from the crate straight to the front yard or the field (which is right beside our house <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. At this point he'll be more interested in sniffing or playing. I make sure he's on a long leash then I leave him alone. I walk around playing with the ball/tug by myself and ignore him (no eye contact, no calling him, etc.) After a while he gets bored on his own and will start to play with me, in which case I start to intensify the action. I only take one tiny step from what we did last time before I take him back home and in a crate (i.e. no bites before, one bite now then put away...etc.) If I have someone with me we also throw the toys back and forth between ourselves, or run around chasing each other until the pup realizes how much fun he's missing out on if he doesn't join.

Another thing I try is to take my older dog, who'll ignore the pup while playing ball even if the pup wants to play with her. Then I play ball with her. The pup is first on a leash while he gets excited, he just wants to play with the older dog first. Then we let him go, he'll run up and try to play with her...she ignores him and keeps on playing ball with me. After a while the pup sees what we're doing, if he shows interest in chasing the ball and not my older dog, I throw the ball, and hold my other dog back while the pup chases the ball. Once he grabs it I praise him wildly and play tug with him/run him/etc. A couple times of this then we hold the pup back again and let him watch the other dog one or two more times, then it's back to the crate.

"Frustration builds drive" is what people are always telling me, so I keep this in mind. However I also learned you have to let the dog know how success feels like at first, so that there will be frustration in the end when he stops having so much success. So when playing tug it may be 'miss' then 'bite', then 'miss miss bite', etc. I was doing so many misses before I actually ended up making him lose interest...now I don't do that...oftentimes the first bite is an easy bite...then I make him work harder for it.

Only time will tell if these things can peak his drive, he is improving now, as before he had absolute zero interest in anything outside the house. The reason I stick with him is because he's a great dog on every other aspect, one hell of a tracker, with a really hard temperament to boot...plus in a room with no distractions he is quite drivey and gets really frustrated if he can't get the item (to the point of biting me), so I know he's 'hiding' something underneath. I just hope I'm not proven wrong. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Oh well...at least all this stuff is helping *me* learn.

Go ahead it is on your dime anyway. Life is to short for cheap beer and crapper working dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />