I have a 4 yr old spayed Boxer bitch who was rescued from a puppy mill where she was breeding stock. I adopted her from our local animal shelter 4 days ago. Currently we are working on the basics of lead training and house training.

She has zero alpha tendencies and is eager and willing to please. Our problem is with the house training schedule. We are absolutely fine and accident free all day, and at night she's tethered to the end of my bed with no accidnents. However, we're in a 3rd floor walk up, and she can't make it down all three flights for that first morning pee.

Currently, she's walked 6x a day, including a 4:30 am wakeup walk: midnight - pee. 4:30 am pee. 9 am - pee. 9:30 feed. 10 am - pee and poop. 3 pm - might pee. 5 pm - feed. 5:30 - pee and poop. 9 pm - may pee. midnight - pee.

She has free access to water all day, but her water is picked up at 6 pm. This 4:30 am walk is killing me. Is there anything I can do to encourage her to hold it longer and make it down 3 flights for a morning wee? We tried that with a 7:30 am pee, but she didn't make it and I'm hesitant to do a lot of pee "experimenting" in a shared, communal carpeted stairwell and hall.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!

(PS: She is praised and treated for "good potty!" and only treated on those occassions.)

Seems odd that she can make it from 10am to 3 or 5pm which is 5-7 hours...& not for more than 4 1/2 hours at night. Maybe you should have her checked out at the vets??? Just a thought.

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Seems odd that she can make it from 10am to 3 or 5pm which is 5-7 hours...& not for more than 4 1/2 hours at night. Maybe you should have her checked out at the vets??? Just a thought.

I would do that too, and also point out that she may perceive your apartment as inside and the hallways and stairs as outside. There are converted row houses across the street from me, and a neighbor's rescue did that (only one flight, but same thing). Each time the dog squatted she said no no and hurried her along and then the second they got outside said "potty!" and praised her to heck.

This took a while. She carried a small tote bag with rags and spray carpet cleaner for about two weeks on each trip out.

Just a thought!

P.S. Old towels are great great for that, btw. Spray on the carpet stuff, wait a sec, put down a thick pad of clean old white towel, and stand on it, then put a new dry side down and do the same thing. The when you get it all soaked up, spray it later with that pet de-smell stuff.

My neighhbor did all this pretty unobtrusively, btw. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thank you so much for the replies <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Seems odd that she can make it from 10am to 3 or 5pm which is 5-7 hours...& not for more than 4 1/2 hours at night.

Well, but it isn't 4 1/2 hours... we're asking her to go 12 - 8:30, and that's the *only* time she can't make it down the stairs - after 8.5 hours. Hence, the 4:30 am potty run!

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Maybe you should have her checked out at the vets??? Just a thought.

Yes, we have a vet appointment on Thursday so I was planning to raise this issue anyway.

I actually just started recording which outings she potties on and which ones she doesn't, so I'll double-check her "longest duration" times. She's waking me up at 4:30 though, 2 nights in a row, so I'm assuming she's asking to pee, and she certainly does when we get out there. She could also be hungry, I guess, or just wanting to say hi, but... she pees as soon as we're out and goes right back up and back to sleep, so I really don't know.

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also point out that she may perceive your apartment as inside and the hallways and stairs as outside.

That was my first thought, too, when it happened. But then I can't help wondering why the hall and stairs are only potty territory for that early morning walk, and not for any of the other ones. I'm confused by my dog <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Don't give the dog time to stop and pee on the stairs, try putting the leash on her in the apt. and don't stop moving till you're outside, if the dog is moving foward it probably won't pee till you stop,
AL

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......That was my first thought, too, when it happened. But then I can't help wondering why the hall and stairs are only potty territory for that early morning walk, and not for any of the other ones. I'm confused by my dog <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Excellent point, and I have to say that I didn't fully buy into the inside-outside hallway thing, either........ but no matter what it is (unless she has a UTI), the procedure remains the same: eagle eye for squatting and hurrying her along (on lead, of course) to the outside, to be praised lavishly for "good potty" or "good outside" or whatever the word is you use.

And since you are catching it in the act, I'd feel fine about saying no no in a "no" voice (I use a different voice for praise than for "no") when she tries to squat in the wrong place.

She's doing darned well for a 4-day rescue, btw. Chances are she has had little real housetraining with her background (and a shelter can kind of screw up the training, anyway, because sometimes the dogs just have to use their kennels for potty).

I'm fostering a senior rescue at the moment who has never lived indoors. I feel for you! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But we are on Day 16, and he is no longer tethered to me and has no accidents (once in a great while, maybe not quite making it out the door with a dribble along the way.....). Stick to it, be patient, and remember that she wants consistent (and clear) instruction and praise.

P.S. I forgot to add: Who knows what some other dog might be doing on his 6 a.m. potty run in the same hallway? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And maybe leaving very attractive scents to a dog looking for a toilet........

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I have to say that I didn't fully buy into the inside-outside hallway thing, either...

Oh, I do buy that, though... I'm sure that it is a point of (understandable) confusion for a lot of dogs. I just don't think it's the case for Eimear. Thank GOD because I'd be a basket case if I had to deal with this 7 walks a day <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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the procedure remains the same: eagle eye for squatting and hurrying her along (on lead, of course) to the outside, to be praised lavishly for "good potty" or "good outside" or whatever the word is you use.

Yes, yes that is the procedure. HOWEVER, there is a secondary problem. She HATES going out. Passionately. She would really, really prefer to spend her entire life on our nice safe couch and never venture into the scary, hectic urban world.

I have waited, called, tempted with treats, been quite serious and grim, coaxed, hauled, clapped... and carried my dog down three flights of stairs and onto the pavement.

Once we're out, she'll walk, and pee, and then we "good potty!" and treat and go straight back home. But we're both exhausted by this performance.

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P.S. I forgot to add: Who knows what some other dog might be doing on his 6 a.m. potty run in the same hallway? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And maybe leaving very attractive scents to a dog looking for a toilet........

Ha! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Except, no. There are no other dogs in our building, nor have there ever been, and the dog is here on a provisional trial basis with our landlord. So, you know, no pressure or anything... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

But yes, she's doing really, really well. She's a clever girl to understand pottying outside so quickly and she's really a love. A very, very lazy love with a small bladder, but a love none the less.

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.......I have waited, called, tempted with treats, been quite serious and grim, coaxed, hauled, clapped... and carried my dog down three flights of stairs and onto the pavement. .....Once we're out, she'll walk, and pee, and then we "good potty!" and treat and go straight back home. But we're both exhausted by this performance. .....

You mentioned the landlord: Training her with basic ob will endear you both to your landlord and pave the way for other well-behaved dogs, and I know personally whereof I speak, because I manage residential realty for a couple of my clients.

I'd buy Leerburg's DVD #302 immediately and start having training fun.
http://www.leerburg.com/302.htm

As far as going out goes, I would make it the best show in town, with amazing treats and toys luring her all the way. If she has a weight issue, consider the wondrous treats you use as bait part of her overall diet (which it is). Make it pieces of low-sodium all-meat hot dogs or cooked pieces of chicken or beef heart or anything else dogs flip for.

This is all JMO. Getting her off the couch and off for walks and tiny training sessions would be a top priority for me, and it wouldn't bother me at all to use bait.

Connie, you are so smart! I tempted her down the stairs with a pull toy and she came down pretty easily. Hurrah!

We went at 11 pm (pee), 2:30 am wakeup pee, and a 10 am pee/poop immediately after breakfast. So yes, she can make it darn near 8 hours *and* not go on the stairs! And is such a clever girl!!!

<img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think you're right that obedience is our next stop. She'll always be a house dog but we need to add sit, stay, come and lie down to her repetoir. I think we'll stick with pottying this week to get a really good and clear schedule, and then do ob starting next weekend. I'm also going to bake her some cheesey dog treats specifically for ob training <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

Hi, I've just joined this forum and am trying to get help with a puppy mill breeder survivor. She is a 4 or 5 year old Shih Tzu and she apparently had one of the worst experiences of these puppy mills. I've had her over two months now. She reacts in a panic to a leash, she has no problem relieving herself in her crate, and she can't go up or down stairs - does not have a clue. If she is restrained in any way, she goes into a panic (found that out at the vet when they tried to draw blood from her neck - but she was no problem if I just hold her and they get it from her arm). She is sweet, gentle, not aggressive, and otherwise a great dog. However, my biggest problem is having her understand about going outside her crate. At first I didn't crate her, since she'd been so long in a crate. I then got a puppy who she loves and they play great so then they spent the night in the crate, with no problem. I tried puppy pads for awhile with her but it was hit or miss. So now I'm following the same crate schedule as with the puppy - hoping the puppy would sort of train the older one! But I take her outside at regular intervals with the puppy training as well, and she just stands there and doesn't go. She only goes once or twice a day as it is - she must have learned to hold it forever at the mill. When she does by chance go outside, she is praised and praised - I make a big deal out of it. She is starting to follow me on one of those retractable leashes so she walks behind me and doesn't feel any tugging. But - I'll bring her in after waiting forever for her to do nothing (the puppy is long done!) and then during some of the time in her crate, she'll do her business. I was following Ed's information about not letting them out of a crate when they are barking, but what if she is trying to tell me she has to go? Anyway, I go to do their usual time out and there it is - could even be just a short time after being outside. Has anyone had this issue and if so - what would you recommend? Does any of Ed's DVDs or info address this issue with puppy mill survivors?

Thanks for any help!

Susan