If the powers that be decide this is inappropriate, let me know and I'll stop.

I've just finished about two weeks of conditioning my dog to an e-collar using the method from Ed's "Remote Collar Training for Pets" DVD. I thought I'd write down my experiences here, in the hope that more experienced people will comment on anything they think I'm missing. My dog is a 10 1/2 month old GSD.

I purchased a Dogtra collar from Leeerburg: http://leerburg.com/1700.htm and a dummy collar, which I used for conditioning: http://leerburg.com/844.htm

Last night I charged it up, and this afternoon I put it on my dog and my wife and I took him outside to discover what the proper setting is for giving him corrections. I followed the method in Ed's video. If you aren't familiar with that particular collar, the remote has a digital LCD readout. A knob on the remote can be turned to adjust the stimulation from 0 to 127. It also has a pager function. Pushing the pager button causes the collar to vibrate for a second or so.

Anyway, we took the dog outside to find the level of stimulation he would respond to. I started with a 0 setting and increased it in increments of 5. We were getting mixed results, until I realized that I was watching the dog and not paying attention to the button I was pressing. Sometimes I'd press the continuous button, sometimes the nick button.

So we brought the dog inside and I took the collar off of him. By the way, following Ed's advice to give the dog a treat before and after changing collars has produced, for me, a dog that sits very patiently and waits while I change his collars.

I gripped the collar in one hand, while holding the remote in the other hand, and repeated the procedure I used on my dog, only this time I tested the stimulation with both the nick button and the continuous button at each setting. What I discovered was that a quick push and release of the continuous button gave a stronger stimulation than pushing the nick button. This was consistent on every setting I tested (I went as high as 40). My wife confirmed this by testing it on herself.

So we put the collar back on the dog and took him outside. I started the test again, beginning at 0 and increasing in increments of 5, but testing both the continuous and nick buttons. What we discovered is that he would respond to the stimulation on a setting of 40 on continuous, but we had to go to 60 on nick to get the same response. By respond I mean he'd look at the ground or move his head, kind of like getting a leash pop. Just so I'm clear, to get a response on continuous, we set the level to 40. To get the same response on nick, we set it to 60. Has anyone else noticed this?

Putting the collar on and adjusting it is more of an art than a science. You just have to play with it to get the proper fit. Unfortunately, I forgot to mark the hole that gave me the proper fit, so I guess I'll have to go through that exercise again.

My plan now is to follow the lessons in Ed's DVD. Take is slow, and see how it goes. One issue I have with my dog is that if he is outside, with no leash or the 6' leash and no one hanging on to it, and he decides it's more fun to play "make the human chase the dog", that's what he'll do. So for my first foray this afternoon I decided to try to use the e-collar to correct that. Interestingly, he chose today to be Mr. Obedient. So instead I started experimenting with the pager, to see if I could train him to associate the page with "come". No luck there, but I didn't work that long on it. Then I found this topic on the forum, and see that some people use the pager just to get the dog's attention. Anyway, what are the suggested ways of using the pager function?

If anyone is interested in how my experience goes, I'll add more as I work more with the collar and the dog.

Rich - two points come at me here.

1- There is never a time table - don't loose patience and don't get in a hurry. You have a long time with your dog

2- If you play poker - and use the pager like you did I compare it to a BLUFF - your dog just called your bluff

Ed,

Thank you for your comments.

#1 I understand. I'm not at all sure what I said that generated that comment, but I know that is something I have to be aware of.

#2 I didn't really work that hard on it. I put the dog into a sit, then called "come" at the same time I pressed the pager button. He came running to me and got a treat. Did that about half a dozen times, then just pushed the pager button while looking at the dog, without the verbal command. He just looked back. Then I called "come" and he came running to me. I was using treats, and he was totally focused on me. I think he just didn't associate the verbal command with the page. Any suggestions as to what I could be doing better?

- or -

#2 You're trying to tell me something here and I totally missed the point. Am I missing the point?

Rich,

I have the 1200ncp and have discovered the same "glitch" (for lack of a better word) in the continuous/nick modes. I tested another 1200ncp owned by a friend and found it to perform the same way. I actually put it on my neck where it is more sensitive rather than the hand.

If you use the little test light with your unit you will see no difference in how bright the light is when you nick/cont at the same level. The dog, and you percieve the continuous as more severe because it is nonstop. The continuous mode at low level is more of a nagging stim used to get the desired reaction which should be followed up with a reward to reinforce the wanted behaviour. Personally, I use the nick funtion more as a correction tool and the continuous for shaping behaviour.

Howard

Hi Rich, IMO, since using an ecollar is a new experience for you, I would stick to using the nick button as a correction for not following a command at this point. Ecollars are a great tool that can quickly gain a dogs respect or break a good bond.
One thing at a time. Take it slow and figure out what works best for you and your dog. Use the lowest possible setting. Make sure, beyond a shadow of doubt that your dog knows what the command means before you use the ecollar as a tool for correction. Don't expect too much too soon, give yourself some time. Confusion for the dog can be the beginning of the end. Personally, I have found no use for the pager. Maybe some other members can give some suggestions.

Watch Ed's DVD again. Put the collar on your neck, think like a dog, let your wife give you some commands and corrections!!! Your wife will love it!!! Have a fun weekend! hehe

Debbie

i am not familiar with that particular e-collar but i have one i use myself. my "pager button" doesn't viberate but what it does do is beep. i use it for "praising". it is just another way for me to use positive reenforcement in the case i don't have a treat on me that second. the one thing that does worry me though is in your post you stated that you experimented using different ways. as a newbie to the collar i would STRONGLY advise that you stop experimenting and just use one way. e-collars are a great tool to use to speed training along and to correct those "impossible" habits, however they will also confuse the he11 out of your dog really fast and you run the risk of destroying his drive. also what are your plans for this dog? is it a family pet, a SAR dog, SChh dog?

Jason,

The "experimenting" I did was trying to figure out what the pager is for. The button is there, someone thought it was a good idea to put the function in the unit. Otherwise, I was following the directions on Ed's DVD to find the lowest setting that the dog would react to. Discovering the difference between the nick and continuous, using the same setting, was quite a surprise, and I'm really glad I did that experimenting on myself rather than on the dog. On the dog, I started at 0, pressed continuous, then nick, then increased by 5. I got a reaction to continuous at 40. At that point I increased to 45 and only pressed nick, until he reacted to that, at 60. I did not experiment with higher settings on either nick or continuous beyond the point where I got a reaction similar to what Ed demonstrates in his DVD.

This dog is a family pet.

Debbie,

I am going through Ed's DVD again. I suspect I'll go through it again and again.

The pager. You'd think if they went to expense of putting the function into the collar that it must provide some utility.

Howard,

Thank you for verifying that what I found happens in other Dogtra collars too.

Rich, The pager essentially can be used like a "clicker" or in place of "good boy" or a piece of food,etc....a marker for desired behavior. Like all training it takes time and conditioning.

Regards,
Debbie