ok, i made a really long stab @ this and deleted it to make it more reader friendly.

here is the short version...

My dog: 12wk GSD

What i am seeing....

the pup does not eat a "healthy" amount of food (more than .25 cup) until late in the evening (10pm), and does not really seem interested until about then. No matter what i try. i give him food @ 6am when i wake up with him and when i come home in the late afternon again. always picking the food up after about 40 minutes, as suggested by my VET.. he does not really show interest. maybe he just wants to spend time with me. I dunno.

He really does not 'chow down' until he is ready. he will be pacing and showing dislike for not having his meal out. knowing he has not eaten more than one full cup total all day, i put the bowl down and give him some food.

I am feeding him science diet puppy small bites if that helps. when he eats, he eats...2+ cups at a time. but unless it is late nite, he wont eat...

also, is it normal for him to turn his water bowl over and bring it into the living room EVERY time he drinks? he just started that 2 days ago...

anyone have any thoughts??

thanks in advance.

Hi Louis.

Welcome to the forum, and I hope what I am about to post doesn't scare you off. (please stick with us here!)

I encourage you to research dog food. There is a ton of excellent information here on Leerburg on that topic. While I have not personally reviewed the Science Diet pup formula you mention, I am convinced that "Science Diet Lite Senior" formula nearly killed one of my dogs. Maybe these dogs are just smarter than us about good quality food and what we present them in their bowls! We have chosen to feed our pups and dogs in close alignment with the Leerburg recommendations, but even if you decide to stay with a kibble, I urge you to research that.

OK - "Improved Feeding Commercial" over....

Sounds like your pup might just have you figured out. I would NEVER EVER recommend witholding food from young pups for very long. But assuming you have ruled out any medical problems, your pup WILL get hungry, and WILL most likely eat according to your schedule, if you stick with it.

For pups of the age you're talking about, we have always fed twice per day. Our adult dogs eat once per day. They are fed in their crates. The food goes down, and then 15 - 20 minutes later, it comes back up until the next feeding time. They learn this pretty quick - eat when the food is available. And back to my original "feed like Leerburg suggests" commercial - my PICKIEST eater has no hesitation or BS over her dinner now that we feed raw.

Best wishes - and I hope I didn't come on too strong with my anti-Science Diet commercial (well, OK - I'm sure I did). I thought I was doing the very best for my senior dog. I had no idea what a bad decision that food brand was until I did more research. I hope I haven't offended you, and I will be happy to share what I've learned about that choice, as I know others more knowledgeable than me around here will too.

Beth

 Quote: louis larose

..... He really does not 'chow down' until he is ready. he will be pacing and showing dislike for not having his meal out. knowing he has not eaten more than one full cup total all day, i put the bowl down and give him some food.

I am feeding him science diet puppy small bites if that helps. when he eats, he eats...2+ cups at a time. but unless it is late nite, he wont eat...

also, is it normal for him to turn his water bowl over and bring it into the living room EVERY time he drinks? he just started that 2 days ago...

anyone have any thoughts??

thanks in advance.

Hi, Louis,

What I would do:

I would dump that food immediately, keeping in mind that vets get very little training in nutrition and that what they do get is subsidized by the companies that make the foods in the glossy bags in the waiting room.

SD is WAY up there on my personal list of inappropriate dog food (and it's WAY up there on the lists of anyone who has done even minimal research in canine nutrition).

I'd go here:
http://www.leerburg.com/feedingdogs.htm
and decide on whether to switch to fresh food (best, IMHO), or maybe The Honest Kitchen with RMBs added (very good), or at least one of the quality kibbles Ed Frawley lists there.

I would get one of the no-tip water bowls..... that solves that.

I really believe that good food will help a lot. I think you are doing right by not free-feeding.

Editing to add that Beth hadn't yet posted when I started typing..... ; there's two strong votes for you against SD.

It's not just SD, either; most of the big-advertising-budget foods are (IMO) made from the worst ingredients. Purina, Hills, et al, use cheap grains to make up some (or a lot) of the "grain %" they list on their packages. Grain protein is not readily accessible to dogs; they don't digest the way humans do and are not designed to process grains every day. They need meat protein, with little (or preferably no) grain in their daily food. JMO....... but backed up with a lot of research.

P.S. Welcome, Louis! You came to the right place for all things dog. :>

Hi Louis! Congrats on your new puppy!

Ok, Science Diet is complete crap. It's one of the worst things you could be feeding your pup. Chances are (especially as a GSD), he will develop digestive upsets, allergies, bad hips, diseased teeth & gums, improper growth etc. etc. early in life if you continue feeding him that.

I know it's hard to believe that vets give out terrible nutrition advice, but it's true. They get very little training and what they are taught is taught by... the pet food companies. The vets also get a large portion of their earnings from selling the commercial kibbles.

The ideal diet for your puppy is an all raw diet. Raw meats, bones, organs, fish, eggs etc. Not only will your pup love that more than kibbles, it will make him so much healthier.

The Leerburg website is an excellent place to research a raw diet - if you consider the huge number of litters raised on raw at Leerburg, you'll see for yourself that you can trust them. Ed and Cindy know what they're talking about when it comes to feeding!

If you're not ready to make the switch to completely raw, at least go with the commercial diets recommended on the site.
German shepherds tend to do very badly on grains. At least find a good quality kibble or dehydrated food that's grain-free and made from quality ingredients.

No matter how good the ingredients that go into kibble, the kibble is highly processed and will not be as healthy for your pup as raw. Higher end kibbles and commercial diets tend to cost a lot more than a home-prepared raw diet. It's easier than you might think, and if you search this forum, you will come up with a huge number of posts covering the topic

If you're up for some extra reading on the subject, this site is excellent as well: http://rawfed.com/myths/

Don't be fooled by some uneducated vet... some vets will have a lot of common sense and support raw feeding, many are close-minded idiots whose only motivation is to sell the commercial crap that passes as dog food.

To answer your question on scheduling, a dog is not likely to be hungry first thing in the morning. Your pup is certainly not going to eat some junk kibble unless he is starving... not the best way to raise a large-breed puppy. You need a diet high in ANIMAL protein that's easy to digest for him.
Try exercising/playing with him before feeding, and do some motivational training. Tire out his little body and brain and he will be more likely to eat.


Good luck with everything! Believe me once you switch to raw, you will never go back to cheap junk kibbles

(Edit) lol, Connie, I guess that makes 3 votes against Science Diet. Then again, my older shepherd suffered on kibbles long enough... I think she earned a vote. 4 Votes

And Louis, I'll just add that a raw diet does not have to be expensive. I average 2 dollars a day to feed my two German shepherds (a 60 lbs. female and a 95 lbs. male) on a 100% raw diet of meats and bones. All you need is a large freezer; then look up "meat wholesale" in the yellow pages and find out what you can buy for a good price.
Pork riblets, ground beef, chicken thighs/backs, heart, liver are a good place to start. The key is to feed good variety.
Again, this site and forum has a lot more info.

You'll be glad you put some effort into your pup's feeding in the long run. You'll end up with a much healthier dog with beautiful shiny fur, healthy teeth and clean breath, healthy joints, strong muscles etc. Far less vet bills than you would have with a kibble-fed dog, too

I double-checked on that particular SD product.

As you see, not only is meat or meat meal not in first place -- there is NO MEAT AT ALL except for by-products.

Ingredients
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Brewers Rice, Fish Oil, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Man that's disgusting... corn and soybean for dogs?? No wonder they get so sick from eating that.

Thanks for posting that Connie!

No wonder the dog food companies are so successful. They use the cheapest junk possible in the food and make so much money from the sales that they can go ahead and buy off veterinarians, right from vet school

 Quote: Yuko Blum

.... And Louis, I'll just add that a raw diet does not have to be expensive. I average 2 dollars a day to feed my two German shepherds (a 60 lbs. female and a 95 lbs. male) on a 100% raw diet of meats and bones. All you need is a large freezer ....

And I want to add that I do it with no freezer except the one in the 'fridge. I just want to make clear that it can be done with zero equipment investment.

But please don't feel overwhelmed by the urging to switch to fresh food. If you are not ready, you can take smaller steps by getting a much better commercial food. You'll find that the owners who have switched to raw can be very enthusiastic by the changes they see in their dogs' coats, skin, and overall health. I find it hard not to go on and on, even after a long time feeding raw, but I honestly do believe that you can do quite well with the best commercial foods these days.

Give him couple chicken wings,I bet he'll eat it and smile after wards
And if you decide to feed raw, you've come to the right place........Lots of help, ideas,info......24/7

alright guyz and galz. thanks for those positive notes. i am a little timid to do the raw feeding at the moment, just because. i have never owned a dog before and i want to do it right. maybe the raw food is the thing. but for now, i will continue on with the kibble, albeit not SD.

i will do some more research on the recomended drys, but feel free to post up your top choices, and where i might be able to get them.

thanks again...

ps. i bought him some 'no-tip' bowls today for his food and water....i think that they will be just fine.....

i am going to continue to try and pick up his food and see how it goes. the water too. i hate the idea of not having water for him from 7pm until 11pm when i go to bed and put him in the room with me. also, when ever i take him out after i pull up the water, he tries to drink all the dirty water and crap that might be standing in the grass (it has been excessively rainy here in the last 3 weeks...)

again, thanks for all the great info...