I recently got a private email through the board from Chad Stahl. Chad has a PHD (I am not sure what his specialty is) and feels that it is irresponsible to tell people that they should not get yearly vaccinations. Here is his post followed by my thought.


Hi,
I'm a new user of your discussion board and cam across this discussion on vaccination. It is important to realize that there are several different types of vaccines, examples being live (dilute but viable), modified or attenuated (treated in a manner to reduce viability, as well as synthetic. Not all vaccines inject a virus into your animal.
Without going into a detailed description of acquired immunity and individual differences in maintaining immunity, just because an initial series of vaccines is given, does not mean that immunity will persist over the life of the animal.
Is it likely that most animals will lose this immunity in a year? No. Two years? Maybe not. The reason for recommended yearly vaccines is a cost benefit analysis. Data showing negative health effects of yearly vaccination in dogs has not been conclusive. And with the cost of a combo vaccine dose at around $2.50 versus the costs associated if your dog contracts one of these preventable diseases, it is understandable why people err on the side of caution. Recommending that no further vaccination should be given after the original series is irresponsible. I would be happy to discuss this topic further if you wish.

My Thoughts - First I posted this email on the board because I feel it offers another point of view (different from my own)

In my opinion no matter what the science is behind vaccinations ( an I will not try and ague the science because I am not trained in it) I do not agree with Chad.

I think the veterinary industry is running a scam on pet owners. It's called the "YEARLY VACCINATION SCAM TO IMPROVE CASH FLOW." The fact is that the Vet industry is now backing off yearly vaccinations on cats (too many health problems have resulted) Many responsible vets are agreeing with my position.

The most important issue that Vets do not consider is the healthy food factor. By that I mean if we feed our dogs a better diet (not commercial dog food) http://leerburg.com/diet.htm we will have healthier dogs. If we have healthier dogs our dogs will have the needed antibodies to fight off disease if they come in contact with it. There in lies my biggest argument against all these types of vaccines.

The bottom line is that injecting these vaccines into our dogs has serious side effects on too many dogs. I get emails all the time about serious adverse reactions that happen right after (within a couple of days). What we don't hear about because people don't put tow and two together asre the long term reacions.

In my opinion the average consumer or pet owner should not believe that the companies that make these products are going to offer honest results on their products side effect. If they did I would not be hearing about so many reactions.

Companies play down the dangers. They don't want to talk about increased long-term health problems. Yes the dog survived the vaccination - but did it cause thyroid problems, did they cause cancer in later life, did it cause pancreas problems? Did the allergies that the dogs develop come from too many vaccination? I will error on the side of healthy food and no yearly vaccinations.

I am sorry Chad but I trusted the Veterinary industry for 25 years and I have seen too many medical problems that I didn't used to see. When I start seeing distemper or Lepto in my kennel I will change my opinion but I seriously doubt that this will ever happen.

So on this issue all we can do is agree to disagree.

I think too that yearly vaccines is way too much. They don't vaccinate people with everything every year! Plus, many people who do titers instead shows that many dogs still have immunity years after receiving the vaccine. I would highly reommend doing titers first to see if the dog still has immunity and maybe then vaccinate if titer shows no immunity left. When I took my dogs to the vet (they are 4 & 5) she was the one that told me not to vaccinate my dogs since they have had yearly boosters. She told me that the veterinary schools are considering a 3-year vaccine schedule which is much better than yearly! I will try and find the study the University of KC did that showed correlation between vaccines and many illnesses. I am not sure if it's a money scam as so much that's what they have been taught, and sometimes it takes a while to teach an old dogs new tricks. Vets are coming around more and more to this line of thinking as well as BARF.

I am also fortunate to have, not one, but two veterinarians who do not believe in annual vaccinations and who are strongly in agreement with feeding a raw diet. I have a young dog who developed severe skin problems by the time he was 6 months old, including a large lump on the side of his face. He had almost constant diarrhea and would eat only about once every 3 or 4 days...if we were lucky. He also developed serious fear aggression problems. Both of our vets believe that his vaccinations and diet contributed to these problems. Since switching him to a raw food diet, he no longer has skin problems or diarrhea, and we have no trouble getting him to eat anymore. The aggression problem and the lump on his face are believed to have been caused by his vaccinations. We are still dealing with these 2 problems, however, one of the vets told me that, if this is the case, we are lucky that these are the only two problems the vaccinations have caused. She wouldn't give vaccinations at all if she didn't have to.

I've seen first-hand the benefits of feeding a raw food diet. I would never go back to feeding kibble. I feel that would be torturing the poor dog. I will also never vaccinate for anything other than rabies. I've heard far too many horror stories about problems dogs have developed after they recieved their vaccinations.

I am certainly no scientist or trained expert on the topic of vaccines but I have worked with animals at a veterinary clinic since the early 80's. I groom many of the same dogs every month or so for their entire lives. I watch these dogs suffer with every kind of skin, ear, mouth and cancer problems that are unbelievable. Most of these dogs are treasured pets who do exactly what the vets tell them to do. Get puppy boosters every month til 6 months old, then a yearly booster of DHLP Parvo Corona Bordetella Lyme Rabies.........put systemic insecticides on your pet to keep your house flea free.....feed our "special prescription dog or cat food" and now there is a 6 month injectable heartworm prevention and when I asked the sales rep who came to the office I run my grooming business from how long this stuff stays in the dogs system, his answer was "I don't know BUT it is approved for 12 month use in Australia" What does that tell you?? It all boils down to dollars and cents.

Chad states that not every vaccine injects a virus into the dog......that maybe true but I believe that the agents that are mixed with the vaccines are a big part of the problem. Read the book "What Vets Don't Tell You About Vaccines" Ed sells it on his website.

How many of you out there have taken your dog to the vet for an illness or simple surgery and had them vaccinate your dog at the same time?? Ask your vet for the insert of contraindications for vaccine usage. The most common thing I see as a groomer is ear infections or some type of skin "allergy". (that was probably a symtom of vaccines to start with)The doctor examines the dog, gives it a shot of some type of steroid, puts it on antibiotics for the skin and then notices that the yearly boosters are due. Gives it all at the same time......like I said, read the contraindications for administering vaccines. They should not be given with any immune suppressing drugs or anesthesia and only to healthy animals.

I literally watch people's pets suffer and age before their time.....it is a shame. Until people question commercial dog food and over vaccination I believe a lot of the health problems we see in our dogs will only get worse. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I think more and more people and vets are coming around thanks to the internet.
What I think is a shame is how many people have such closed minds. I try to keep an open mind, even when Chad posted about the stuff in the pork meat. Anyway, I have tried to educate some friends and co-workers with this info (who have pets) and I am amazed at how many just don't want to hear it! They just continue like sheep and follow the mantra. What a shame. Only the animals will pay the price. Even if I disagree with stuff I at least spend the time to research it on the net and try to form my own opinion without just flat-out rejecting new information. It took me a year before I was willing to do BARF, but then it was a short leap not to do vaccinations. Even in human vaccinations, many studies have been done that show that they believe quite a few auto-immune diseases are being attributed to vaccinations, but the consensus is that the benefits outweigh the risks. Tell that to the person who is suffering MS or lupus. I think it should be a personal choice not the law for humans as well.

Well, I do think vaccinations are important for humans, but I do understand the risks, and I respect the wishes of those who prefer not to take that risk, and instead take the risk of getting the disease. For example, antibiotics can be credited with saving millions of lives, but when used improperly or too much, they can do more harm than good. I would imagine that vaccinations are similar in that respect.

So are you all saying that dogs shouldn't be vaccinated at all, or just that yearly boosters are overkill, and less frequent vaccination is adequate? In other words, it's a matter of degrees......???

Right puppies should get their initial series, but I just read yesterday that they should only get the DHPP. Rabies should be administered at about 16 weeks and several weeks after last series has been received.
I copied the below from an interesting website on vaccines:

VACCINATIONS NOT RECOMMENDED Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the immune system and result in lesser immunity for each individual disease as well as increasing the risk of a reaction.
Canine Corona Virus is only a disease of puppies. It is rare, self limiting (dogs get well in 3 days without treatment). Cornell & Texas A& M have only diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs.

"Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in dogs. Most of the clinical cases of lepto reported in dogs in the US are caused by serovaars (or types) grippotyphosa and bratsilvia. The vaccines contain different serovaars eanicola and ictohemorrhagica. Cross protection is not provided and protection is short lived. Lepto vaccine is immuno-supressive to puppies less than 16 weeks."

the website is http://www.doglogic.com/vaccineinfo.htm

has lots of info

Unfortunately, I have to kennel my dogs about twice a year when traveling (can't take em with). The kennels all require that *all* vaccinations (DHLPP & Bordatella) be "up to date", and require proof. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What you can do instead is get the titer done at the vets office and they can then certify your dogs still have immunity. My friend did that. Titers cost more, but hey, it's better for the dogs.

Thanks, I'll check into that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />