Hello All,

Why do we need to give the recommended supplements that are used /
recommended / needed (like Omega-3 (fish oils) and such) - specifically
when feeding a RAW diet?

Of course, I totally agree (because of the wealth of knowledge you
all bring to the RAW table ((special hat's off to Connie S and Yuko!!!)))
that we need to give them, but why - if a "prey model" diet is used?

Theoretically, isn't the "prey model" ideal for a dog? So why the supplements?

Is it that they (like us humans too), just would do better with
added supplements to our diets, or is mandatory, meaning if you
want do do RAW, supplements are vital to success?

Specifically Omega 3s from marine sources, which (IMHO) is the most important supplement:

It's not just for raw. Even kibble that says "Omega 3 fortified" or whatever will be better with fish oil.

Humans can convert land-plant Omega 3s (short-chain Omega 3 EFAs) into the very beneficial long-chain Omega 3 EFAs (like DHA and EPA) at up to a 10% rate. Dogs, Tufts research confirmed in (I think) 2004, cannot. Dogs' rate is about zero. So dogs need marine sources of those anti-inflammatory long-chain Omega 3s.

How did canids get Omega 3s when they were on their own? Simplified: They were eating mostly grass-fed prey, as opposed to grain-fed slaughter animals. Grass-eating animals have Omega 3s stored in their fat.

JMO.

 Quote: connie sutherland

...How did canids get Omega 3s when they were on their own? Simplified: They were eating mostly grass-fed prey, as opposed to grain-fed slaughter animals. Grass-eating animals have Omega 3s stored in their fat.

JMO.

Wow - I get it !

So, as well as giving marine source Omega 3s, people who are raising
prey animals for raw feeding would do well to feed natural grasses,
as apposed to commercially available "pellets" (like the rabbit pellet food
you can buy from Walmart)?

I do not use kelp anymore, and I do the prey model and the only thing I add to the prey model is the green tripe, it is from grass fed animals only.and I want to say that kelp is sea weed , Dingos have been known to eat sea weed on the shore but a very small amount and not every day.I find that if you have green tripe in your dogs diet you have everything a dog needs JMO .
Salmon Oil is good and I use it everyother day.what people have to include and not forget are the organs and green tripe.Everything else(supplement wise) should be secondary or none.

And no, I don't think a diet is sucess-fail rated based on Omega 3s.

But I do think, from everything I have learned and read, that the slide toward Omega 6 EFAs in the modern diet (for humans, too) is a big issue in nutrition.

Omega 6s (chicken, grain-fed beef, corn oil, and on and on) are superabundant, but Omega 3 sources are more limited all the time. Look at the problems with heavy metals in fish. A huge source of Omega 3s is in trouble.

Well, it's a much bigger topic than this, and it's one I find fascinating, and research as much as I can, but maybe that's more than enough for this post.

 Quote: martin espericueta

 Quote: connie sutherland

...How did canids get Omega 3s when they were on their own? Simplified: They were eating mostly grass-fed prey, as opposed to grain-fed slaughter animals. Grass-eating animals have Omega 3s stored in their fat.

JMO.

Wow - I get it !

So, as well as giving marine source Omega 3s, people who are raising
prey animals for raw feeding would do well to feed natural grasses,
as apposed to commercially available "pellets" (like the rabbit pellet food
you can buy from Walmart)?

'Zackly! Or greens, as opposed to grains. I think it's greens in general; I mentioned grass because of the grass-fed/grain-fed cattle thing.

 Quote: Angelique Cadogan

I do not use kelp anymore, and I do the prey model and the only thing I add to the prey model is the green tripe, it is from grass fed animals only.and I want to say that kelp is sea weed , Dingos have been known to eat sea weed on the shore but a very small amount and not every day.I find that if you have green tripe in your dogs diet you have everything a dog needs JMO .
Salmon Oil is good and I use it everyother day.what people have to include and not forget are the organs and green tripe.Everything else(supplement wise) should be secondary or none.

Yes, both the fat in the walls of green tripe and the partly-digested green matter in it would contain Omega 3s.

My dogs and rabbits will be eating better than my kids!!!

Hijack alert!

So we need to give the Salmon Oil (or whatever O3 source) daily? Because I thought I was giving this to replace the lack of fish I was feeding, and giving Salmon Oil every day seems a little absurd to me (and expensive!). I'm giving it every other day ATM.

Regarding rabbits: what about feeding them pellets and two weeks (or a week, or a couple of days) before you kill them giving them greens? I assume feeding pellets is cheaper, that's why I ask.

It's more than just a difference between grain and grass-fed, or weather or not tripe is given.

The brains of an animal contain a massive amount of fat, including the precious Omega 3 fatty acids. How many people feed brains, eyes and other neurological material to their dogs on a regular basis?

Feeding chicken backs and turkey necks is fine, but it's certainly not in the same league as what a wolf would get from fresh prey.
A wolf would get the prey's stomach at every meal, it would get a great source of vitamins from the prey's fresh blood, it would also consume the organs of the prey (not just liver, but the kidneys, spleen, reproductive organs, the intestines of smaller prey etc.), the brain, eyes and spine would be consumed as well, and of course, the fresh muscle meat, fresh bone marrow, fur, skin, cartilage and bones.

If you can feed all that to your dog every single day from grass-fed prey, then you're right, there's no need for supplements

Otherwise, as Connie stated, grain-fed prey is already nutritionally inferior to its grass-fed counterpart in the wild.
The fresh blood is removed from the prey (there go all those vitamins and minerals!), the stomach is removed as well (Omega 3's plus any potential plant matter gone), the brains and eyes are gone as well (Omega 3's lost again).
The muscle meats are chopped up, packaged and sit in a fridge (or equivalent) for days and days. They might be frozen and thawed and may even sit at room temperature for a while before being fed.

With every minute that goes by, the water-soluble vitamins (like Vitamin C) are degrading and being destroyed.

By the time the dog gets this meat, it really isn't a fresh whole prey model anymore, unfortunately.

This is why we supplement with Salmon oil, Vitamin E and Vitamin C.

I feed whole green tripe to my dogs several times a week and I also feed them whole prey heads (brains and eyes included whenever I can). I also feed whole raw sardines and mackarel.
This is my way of feeding them whole natural sources of Omega 3's and Vitamin E so that I can cut down on the supplements.

I also feed berries and leftover/table scrap vegetables when I can so that it compensates for some of the vitamin and antioxidant deficiency in their diets.

I also try to provide them with as much freshly killed prey as I can, which they certainly appreciate

So to the people who argue that supplements are superfluous, I ask them: 1) do you feed FRESH, WHOLE prey, not just certain prey parts that have been sitting around for days in refrigeration? 2) was the prey grass-fed? and 3) do you feed the mixed berries and occasional greens that a wolf would be nibbling on in the wild?

They rarely answer yes to all 3 of those questions. In such a case, their dog's diet would probably be deficient in a number of nutrients and supplements would be a good solution to implement...

I hope this answers your question