My boy has just turned a year. I have been working with trainer (when my work schedule allows) for aggression issues. Ruger used to think he ran the world and nothing could hust him. He was very bossy and started showing aggression towards kids and that's when I got a trainer. On first visit he challenged trainer as soon as he got out of the car. We worked on breaking him down to be submissive and it worked well. He's been doing well with his aggression and is a changed dog toward children but now all the sudden he is overly submissive, to the point of peeing on self when I hold him by his collar lead him somewhere. The other night on a walk he was scared and almost hiding behind me cause a tree limb was banging on a fence. I don't know what to do when he acts like that. I just kept walking and ignored him.

I'd like to eventually have him as a protection dog, think he can be brought back? I've been trying to do some confidence building things like extra obedience and my make shift agility. He jumps like a cat. Any suggestions on the problem. I know our intentions was to break him down and build back up, but did I break him down too far?

To be blunt, of course you broke him down to far if he is pissing on him self and hiding behind you when a tree limb bangs on the fence.

But i also think he can be brought back, although no time soon. I would say you need at least 3 or 4 months before you can put any real pressure on him, it all depends on the dog and how bad you broke him there is always the chance you cant bring him back, at least not back far enough to do any protection work. I would also think you need to step back and take a look at the relationship between you, your dog, and your trainer.

Personally i think there is only a few rare occasions when you should brake a dog. And that is when the dog is out of control. If your dog is just aggressive then thats fine, you can channel that in training.

Also if you don't mind me asking, why do you want/need him as a protection dog?

I would like to know how you do o/b? If you start doing it through compulsive (and I'm not sure what meaning you pour into that word) methods your going to make things worse. To me it sounds like you need to be responsible in the way you treat this and take the time by working your o/b in drive. This is going to have to be fun for your dog. You've broken down your relationship with him and it is in serious need of repair. Don't ignore the bad manners but don't allow him to be in a situation where he's going to have the opportunity to be aggressive towards children. If you don't have the grip,drive, and focus DVD you should. That exercise (especially the into my arms part) will help you tremendously. That part of the exercise is specifically designed to build relationship.
After your relationship is well on it's way to being mended you can begin to introduce your dog into situations like what you've mentioned earlier; only at a distance at first so you don't have to be to harsh if things begin to escalate to quickly. Have faith and hang in there, it can be done.

He definetly was out of control, to the point I was afraid he wouldn't be fixed. I am a veterinary technician and everone in the office thought he was beyond hope. I won't give up on him. He was a rescue and not sure what all he went through. He is missing half his tail from an injury.

I do agree our relationship is missing something, but it is getting better. I lost the perfect dog, my best friend in the world and I know I put too much expectaions on Ruger. I have accepted that despite how much they look alike I can't expect Ruger to be him.

As far as obedience we work on healing, sitting at side, sit stays, down stays. I can now at work put him in a down stay leave the room and have everyone stand walk and call him and he won't move. All that has pretty much come natural to him and doesn't require any correction other than I would put him back in place when he'd move when he was learning. He seems to love the obedience and is a big show off, love his downs he's so smart ass about it very fast and play like. He also loves to jump so that's a big reward to him to let him he can clear 4 foot without a head start. All his obedience is still on leash and I use a pinch on him but rarely have to correct him when the leash is on. The only time he gets a huge correction is when he does things like lunges at a person, but he hasn't done that a long while. I really don't know what lately could have made him become super submissive. If anything he's been taking it easy and tons of playing.

I'd never put a child at risk and hope you don't think I just threw him out with a kid. It was weeks working up to being in same room and on leash.

I will get that video thank you!

Have you considered taking him to a Schutzhund club and having him evaluated? A good trainer could help you build confidence, and at the very least get to the bottom of his behavior. Just a thought.

Kathleen,

Can you tell us how your trainer "Fixed" him? If you don't feel comfortable putting it on the board, can you PM me?

Howard

 Quote: Kathleen Heth

my make shift agility. He jumps like a cat.

Hi Kathleen,
Please reconsider jumping him at this young age. He needs to have his growing complete (18-24 months) before jumping.

I also agree on good schutzhund club evaluation. This is a type of training that brings out a lot of confidence with the right trainer.

What did your trainer do to make your dog submisive?
Lynn
Lynn

Kathleen,
It is a good thing that your dog seems to be able to do these o/b commands naturally; however, what I'm thinking is more than not training using compulsion, but actually making the training a game. I suppose you could say your building relationship through playing games. With some dogs just doing o/b with them is enough of a reminder of what has happened in the past. Just like people, when they are thinking good thoughts and happy thoughts or in this case having fun because they're in drive allows the brain to fire using different neurons and it creates a whole different feeling. For example, sometimes when I'm starting to train a dog and it right up front refuses to take a treat, and I know it's hungry, I will actually put the treat in their mouth and make him swallow. The dog can't help but enjoy the feeling and he makes the connection. It doesn't take long and the dog is taking food from me after that. By the way I don't recommend just anybody use this technique because it is a good way to get bit if your not extremely careful and are good at reading your dog.
What I'm trying to say is that you have to give the dog a reason to like whatever it is your doing. You said the o/b training seems to come natural to him which makes me wonder if the dog doesn't already have some experience with training.

Thanks Micheal. Everything is a game to him and I guess I've been trying to make his obedience a job. I have had him since 3 old and he came to me skin and bones, with his tail half missing with a fresh scab, pneumonia and no manners so I'm pretty sure whoever had him didn't do training on him.

Someone asked about why I needed him to be protective. Probably not to the point of attack trained but I need a dog who will keep a good watch. I make a lot of night visits to work and bring a dog with me for safety. Just feel a lot better walking in with a dog especially if I go up for an alarm going off. The dog I lost was perfect, he wouldn't even let the doctor in after hours he'd corner him and bark until I came up and then he'd run to greet him. Business hours anyone could walk in. Bullet would help me with the sick patients and come lick their faces and lead them out for walks, he had a amazing sensitivity and he knew when they were going to pass on he'd just become very sad. He just had this thing about him that rubbed off on everyone he met and I never came across another dog who didn't like him either. When I was doing everything I could to save his life (kidney failure at 3) I took him to lots of other doctors and everyone always commented how he was one in a million. Makes it a hard path for Ruger to follow his shoes and I think that's a lot of our problem.

Oh and as for his jumping all of his activities have been ok'd by his doctor. I know he has to be careful.