I am really considering this diet for my dog. What concerns me is the fact that I cannot find "proof" that my dog will not be injured by the uncooked bones or salmonella etc..

I have ordered Billingquist's book and this should help. Can anyone recommend a good website with DVM's who support the BARF? Thanks

You're not going to find such "proof" because an animal could in fact be harmed by an uncooked bone. However, It's a cost benefit analysis. Does the possibility of a bone injury outweigh the health benefits? Is one injured animal in 5,000 unacceptable to you? The odds, of course, *vary* depending on what kind of bone you're talking about and what you mean by "harm". So what DO you mean exactly?

As for salmonella, I'm not sure what if any risk there is to the animal. As for DVMs, I don't care. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure someone else will chime in.

Btw, the figure I mentioned was just a wild guess. I really don't know.

The problem with BARF is that no one, including Billinghust, has done any research on the diet. So the information available is all anecdotal. You either believe it or you don't. I know of dogs that have had problems with bacterial infections, with major diarreah (to the point of almost losing a pup) from raw. The owner of one of the dogs still swears by the diet and continues to feed it. They also seem to have forgoten about the earlier problems.

Much of the information available is conflicting, and there has been no research to prove or disprove any of the claims.

Use it if you want, but make sure you understand the potential problems.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Cannon:
The problem with BARF is that no one, including Billinghust, has done any research on the diet. So the information available is all anecdotal. You either believe it or you don't. I know of dogs that have had problems with bacterial infections, with major diarreah (to the point of almost losing a pup) from raw. The owner of one of the dogs still swears by the diet and continues to feed it. They also seem to have forgoten about the earlier problems.

Much of the information available is conflicting, and there has been no research to prove or disprove any of the claims.

Use it if you want, but make sure you understand the potential problems.

I agree that there can be problems with an all natural diet,(I hate the term BARF) especially if it's poorly constructed by well meaning dog owners that don't do their research BUT to say that bacterial infections are caused by food is merely a guess. Kibble is full of bacteria and in most cases really questionable ingredients that I personally would not feed any dog.

I am a raw feeder and have been for years, my dogs had many more medical issues (diarrhea, skin problems, ear infections, etc....) while on kibble.

If you really are interested in feeding your dog properly, do lots of research, read and talk to people who have actual experience feeding their dogs in this way AND be prepared for criticism from people who feed kibble... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I have fed raw to about 8 dogs in a period of about three years now. All of my dogs are in great health. Thier ages are from 4 weeks to just under 8 yrs. I have noticed some loose runny stools from time to time, but this is rare, and normally is attributed to either a change in meat, or too much food. I have fed kibble also, and can say that the dogs that are fed kibble, are looking and acting older, faster then thier raw fed friends. I am convinced that Raw is better. It took me time to do all the reading and research, but I am now comfortable with this type of diet. I still keep on reading as there is always something new to learn. Do a ton of research, then decide. But i would advise anyone to look at a dog that is say 7 or 8, fed raw, and then look at a dog that is the same age, fed kibble. Do it with a few comparisons. The results are so different in most cases.

Cindy,

I am fairly sure that the source of the problem was the food. I know of 4 dogs that had the same problems with the same food source, and none had problems when the food source changed. The only variable that changed was the food.

I have tried moving to raw/natural diets several times and had nothing but trouble with it. And yes 3 of the dogs mentioned above were mine.

I have fed kibble for over 25 years at different levels of kibble. I have vary few problems with my dogs and all have lived, in exelent condition for 50% or greater the average life span of the breed and all were in exellent shape with little in the way of medical problems. The workng dogs were generally doing there thing well until the were over 10. I think there are so many available variables that with out a controled study you can't identify what is the source of the benefit.

Don't get me wrong, I have been very impressed with the anecdotal info that is available and many people I respect have done well with it. I have made attempts to convert, with no success. If it works for you God bless and go for it. It didn't work at all for me.

All bacterial GI tract infections are due to "food" or water. "Food" in this sense being anything the animal ingests, feces etc. While kibble does have bacteria, everything has bacteria on it. The difference is that the pathogenic bacteria are killed during thermal processing and the final product is also tested for pathogens in case of contamination after cooking. None of this is done with fresh meats. That is why there are over 2.5 million cases of foodborne disease, due to E. coli and Salmonella, in this country annually.
The other big concern with 'made at home diets' is that the only performance indicators people use for the "health" of their animals are things like shiny coat, clean teeth, and lean physique. These tell nothing about the animal status for several nutrients which have been directly linked with cardiovascular diseases, cancers, and other aging related maladies. And this is not even considering developmental issues related to nutrition.
Anyone that thinks that they can formulate a more ideal diet at home for their dogs, should go to their doctor and have their own iron, zinc, selenium, and copper status determined. If you manage to be without excess or deficiencies of these nutrients (less than 20% of the US pop.)maybe you could do the same for your dog.

Lee, do your research, take in other peoples' opinions and go from there. But take this into consideration: Processed dog food has only been around for 60 odd years. Before that what were dogs fed? Homemade cooked food, scraps from home and the butcher, the vermin dogs hunted down and killed on the farm, you get what I mean.

Think of the evolution of our own food in the past 50 years, pesticides, steroids, processed foods, increased sugar and a myriad of chemicals to make our food more 'palatable' and 'appetizing'!

Along with the increased production of this 'food' comes a lot of waste. But in our society, that waste can be created into the almighty dollar again! So a large percentage of that becomes animal feed. Big Money! Powerful money, influential money! Anyway, that's my rant on kibble. Just reading about rendering plants might change your mind.

Personally, I have raised a pup, now 13 months old, on the raw diet. She was weaned on raw. I had all the same questions and concerns as yourself. I did lots of reading. I will never feed my animals kibble again. I am very pleased with how she has grown, never, ever had one problem and her energy is boundless.

It is all common sense. Prepare your dog food as you would your own, with freshness and sanitation in mind. It takes a bit more effort than scooping out a handful of kibble, but once you get a routine down, piece of cake! If you have questions about particular meats or veggies, ask, get on a K-9 discussion forum. There are certain things you don't want to feed your dog.

The best thing about this wholesome diet is you can identify food that your dog is not compatible with and eliminate it. (Just like people that have certain food allergies.) My dog is allergic to alfalfa, so I don't use it. Not done so easily with dog food. Often you read about people that keep trying to find a food that doesn't cause problems with their dog, unfortunately, many contain the same ingrediants and is not so easily eliminated. Especially grains, can't make kibble w/o grain and well...I've never seen dogs graze on grain.

Lots of vets support the raw diet, lots of vets don't. Do your research and decide. Here are some links to get you started:
Lots of reading!
The Big 5-pet food companies

Do you want your dog to just survive or THRIVE!

(OK Chad, waiting for your rebuttal <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

Think of the evolution of our own food in the past 50 years, pesticides, steroids, processed foods, increased sugar and a myriad of chemicals to make our food more 'palatable'and 'appetizing'!

And what has happened to the average life expectancy in the last 50 years? When was the last time you saw someone with a goiter? Our knowledge of biology and nutrition has increased expontentially over the past twenty years, let alone fifty.

Through real research, not my dogs coat looks shinier so he must be healthier nutrient requirements and ratios have been determined. To think that you at home, without any nutrient analysis capabilities, can meet all of the nutrient requirements without causing detrimental excesses of certain nutrients, is beyond naive.

If you want to make your own dog food because you don't trust big business and think that they are using dog food bags to spy on you in your home, that's is fine. It's your dog and your money - you can do whatever you like. But to read a book or two written by someone with virtually no nutritional training, and then to treat it as gospel is just funny.

The all natural diet folks treat nutrition like religion rather than science. I'm just waiting to see someone post that you have to believe in the all natural diet in order to see alll its benefits.

And with this last thought I'll end my rant...if the biggest arguement you can use for feeding an all natural raw diet to dogs is that this is closest to what their evolutionary ancestors ate, why would you cook your food?