I have a multi prong scenario that I am hoping others who have been in this type of scenario can offer their advice/resolutions. (sorry for the length)

But of course, thanks needs to be given to Ed for the great site and wealth of info. It has been extremely helpful and using his techniques/insight have already accomplished small goals that would not of have been possible otherwise.

With that said, my wife and I have been raised around large breed dogs our entire lives and have routinely crate trained them for basic housetraining, and run them through the basics; NO, sit, stay, come. They have all been house pets so as most of you are probably all too aware, they are given allot of lee-way once they have received the basics.

The scenario my wife and I are in now requires a little background info in order to figure out the core issues to solve the problem (ok allot of background info).

7 Years ago we came across an 6 month female amstaff terrier(molly) who was going to be given away by their owners. At the time we had a 3 year old male dobi/rott/shepherd mix (mars, got him at 3 months old). He was already house broken and trained. We let the two of them meet in neutral ground and they both took to each other like 2 peas in a pod.

Back then I was not aware of the whole isolation thing ed recommends, but we did crate train her and put her through the basic commands. After about 2 months, Once we were certain that she could control herself in the house, she was allowed out with mars while we were gone during the day.

We lived in a fairly large apartment at the time. She had no issues at all with mars. But we did notice that when she would play with the puppy next door, that she would really play rough with it. We also noticed that she did not take kindly to two of the other adult dogs living in the building. We just chalked it up to her being territorial, we never thought about her thinking she was the pack leader, as she always obeyed our commands. But to err on the side of caution she was never allowed to play freely with other dogs other then mars.

About 2 years later we took over our family home, inheriting another pair of dogs, a full female rott and a full male dobi. We did try to integrate them (unfortunately we did not know about this site at the time, if we did we would of have never of have attempted that). For lack of a better word, the eldest (the dobi) tried to eat molly during a meeting (we had just take his muzzle off and hers was still on). after that meeting we kept the 2 pairs isolated from each other in the same home, which for those of you reading who have that same issue, it is not that hard to do. DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR DOGS!

Moving on, the dobi and rott were up there in age and eventually we had to put them down for humane reasons (the dobi stopped eating and would not get up just like a human at death, he was 14; the rotti, a 10 year old, her hips went but was too prone to seizures for her to survive an operation). This left molly and mars to have free reign of the house and yard.

I freely admit that we made mistakes with molly during this time, like allowing her on the bed (not to sleep mind you), or allowing her to be loved when she wanted. But she never showed aggression towards mars.

She did however, show a very strong prey aggression. If it moved and was an animal (bird, cat, dog, squirrel), she would try to kill it. She would run along the fence line for hours chasing our next door neighbors dog.

About 3 weeks ago, mars, passed away peacefully in his sleep at the old age of 14. We decided to get a new companion for her as it was obvious that she was lonely (as were we). She had stopped eating and would look for him.

We knew that we were going to have issues finding her a new companion based on her previous interactions with other dogs. But we did start re-establishing ourselves as the pack leaders; no laying on the bed at all, sitting before going out, no leaving out tots (which was easy because we did not leave them in the house anyways. we just had to pick up the toys from outside).

We found a 1 year old male predom shepherd mix w/rott (agador spartacus). Very even temperament and has been in a shelter his entire life. Showed no aggression against other dogs and somehow instinctively knows sit, stay and come.

The only thing we needed to do with him was crate train for house breaking and to establish ourselves as his pack-leader. Other then that the rest will be easy for him.

The real issue was going to be with molly. We had them meet twice on neutral ground for 2 hours per meeting (on controlled leash). Molly did not try to kill him, which we saw as a good sign, but she did not take to him/play with him the same way she did with mars. She did T off with him, which we corrected and she did obey.

At the second meeting, she only growled at him once during the initial minute, but then walked side by side with him, again without actively trying to kill him. She did however show very hostile aggression towards other dogs that she saw pass by (we were at a humane society).

We figured that if we wanted to really get a new companion this was probably going to be as good as an initial meeting that we could get out of her. So we adopted him.

When we brought agador home, it was done by himself in the car. We did not bring him inside, opting to keep him far enough away from the house and immediately took both dogs for a long 30 minute walk. Then we brought both of them into the backyard together (making them sit before they entered) and after 30 minutes brought them into the house and into their respective crates where they got water and treats.

With that background, here is where we are:

1. Both dogs can be taken out together at the same time, made to sit side by side before going out, and they can walk together side by side in the backyard and long walks.

2. At first he was not able to run without her trying to dominate him, but now they are both able to run (on leash) with me and she does not try to attack him.

3. He can briefly kiss/lick her and us without her attacking. But she will not lick him.

4. in the crates (which are side by side in the main room), she ignores him and growls when eating, as if he is going to take her food (to be expected). They do stay in their crates unless they are being walked/trained.

5. on controlled leash, in the house, if he runs or goes into the bedroom, she will get very territorial and go after him.

6. both dogs respond to No and will immediately cease all activity when the stern correction no is given and they will sit.

7. on walks or outside, if we stop they will both immediately sit.

8. The 2 times he got off leash in the house (thru my own mistake) he did lightly pee in the bedroom. I equate it more to nerves/excitement as he was only in there for a few seconds. And he has not learned how to lift up his leg yet to pee.

With that scenario if anyone has advice on how to accomplish the following:

1. Have her accept him inside the house; other then her outright voluntarily kissing him, are there any signs that we can look for that she is beginning to warm up? (all of our dogs in the past just took to each other, so we are experience poor in this area).

Are there any playing or "team building" exercises we can do that will allow her to accept him inside the house.

2. Agador and playing/peeing.

He has issues with playing with toys. More appropriately, he does not know that he can play or how to. Playing catch is a pretty pathetic thing to watch as the ball just hits him in the head. Again, an area where all of my other dogs just took to it (molly could literally be a narcotics dog the way she retrieves and finds the ball). Does anyone have any articles they can point me to, or advice. He does have a kong in his crate that we put peanut butter and treats in. Other then that, nothing....

Lifting his leg when he pees. I am not even sure what to do with that one. It's just embarrassing (-; .. just trying to get him some "street cred". Mars went thru that for about a month, but he was 4 months old then. Agador is a full year....

I know the last 2 things are pretty petty, I just have no clue what to do with that. He has this deep shepherd bark, the great agility and natural instinct, but when it comes to those two parts the "which way did they go george" rotti part comes out. (nothing against rotts, they are at the top of the 3 of my favorite breeds. rott owners will know which side I am talking about).

Thanks for listening, and ed feel free to chime in. (I did get the obedience dvd to get some more ideas on training them).

Mike

Personally I think you are wanting the new dog to be a old dog which is not going to happen. He is his own and you have to accept that. So will Molly in time. It sounds like you are wanting things to magicly happen over night. It takes time and you have to wait it out.

As far as lifting the leg it may never happen (specially if neutered at a early age) As for the toy Molly might help him with that - Monkey see monkey do.

I say you are very lucky to get this far with Molly and should be happy with her. Give it time, Rome was not buildt in a day nor are relationships.

I agree that maybe you are wanting things to happen a bit faster than normal. Especially between an older, and sounds somewhat dominant, female and a younger, not too sure of himself yet, male.

Be patient and it sounds like you are on the right track since they sound well mannered when you are with them and they are out together on lead and on outings.

Make sure that no toys are shared and food is given separately (even treats) and also save affection for separate times as well since the female goes after the male when you are giving him attention.

I would also recommend that you keep both of them on lead in the house for awhile and I would absolutely correct the female chasing the male if he decides to run into another room.

You and your wife need to set the boundaries..... with both dogs.

And yes, there are ways to teach you new dog how to play. Monkey see, monkey do is one way, but it sounds as though your female may resent the male chasing her or trying to play with her right now. You can keep him on lead and let him watch play time with her, or you can take him out by himself and try a variety of toys. He will pick the one he likes.

My GSD picked poster tubes (hard cardboard) of all things for her favorite right now and before it was a burlap bag rolled up. She changes.

I am thinking that Ed's video "Building Drive and Focus" may help you, but I have never seen it, so I am wondering if someone else will chime in here and correct me if I am wrong.

Be patient, and take things one step at a time.
And keep researching this site, it is a great help to me even now.....

Just an afterthought here....does your new dog chase things? If he does, you can tie an old towel (rolled and taped on the ends) to a 10' length of small diameter rope and drag it. I actually use a long handled horse whip, the handle makes it easier, for me anyways.

Then just start by dragging it away from him, when he chases it and grabs it, praise him up good......

I apologize if I left the part out that I know it is not going to happen overnight. I'll go years like this if I need to, i've been thru it before. The crux of it is figuring out what the females dominance issue is so it can be corrected.

She does not neatly fit any one category as she is not dominant over him 100% of the time (at least it is not obvious to me, hence why i am posting to get other peoples perspective). I don't want to make the statement that she is trying to establish a rank order because again it does not neatly fit what is happening.

My mind is way too anayltical to let things work itself out. Every problem has a solution, implementing the solution is the easy part. figuring out what is causing it is the hard part. That is where i am at, if that makes sense.

I tried the monkey see, monkey do and I beleive I identified one part of the problem. After he got done watching her play it was her turn to watch (with a different toy).

After a few minutes she became very adamant that she wanted to play with the toy and then proceeded to get worse. She would not obey the normal verbal correction and I had to elevate it to get her to stop and sit. It was like watching a small child throw a temper tantrum.

I put the toy up making sure we watched me do it. And took them back inside and into the crates. Play time was over.

In my mind, that behavior needs to be corrected so that she knows (again) that the toys are mine not hers. This is probably my fault because in the past, when playing with her, sometimes i would withold from throwing the toy and then she would bark, i would tell her to sit then i would throw it. It did not dawn on me that she was barking because she thought it was her toy, i was thinking she was barking at me to throw it so she can fetch.

I do know that we are very lucky to get this far with her in this short amount of time. I'm just trying to make sure things move along in the right direction.

Hi Michael,

I have 2 foster dogs a male and a female. They sound very much like yours do except differnet breeds (male is a Catahoula and female is anyone's guess, might have some staffie in her, probably JRT and Catahoula)

When I first got them female acted very dominant and male acted like a young puppy always wanting to play.

What I did was I kept them 100% separate for at least a month. Their crates were beside each other and female would growl if she had a Kong or her food. I covered the female's crate with a sheet (not the male's because he pulled whatever I put on his crate, into his crate). When male was out, female would snarl viciously when he walked by her crate.

Now they love each other and play all the time. All I did was keep them separate, cover the crates, give them individual time with me and correct ANY sign of aggression from the female. Also the female soon saw that I would not let the male take any of her things and she was not allowed to take his things.

Somehow, and I don't know what happened, she decided to like him and now they love to play together. (They are still kept separate when I am not home).

I think your female is (part of it) worried the male will take over her things and she is letting him know, "stay away from my food and toys". They need to figure out their place in the pack. YOU need to re-inforce to the female that YOU are the boss and it is not her place to correct the male. (She needs to know that if a correction is warranted, you will take care of it, not her). And cover her crate so she can eat without worrying about the other dog.

You didn't say if your dogs were neutered and at what age, and you also didn't say how long you've had your male.

I think you are worring too much, sounds like you are doing the right things by supervising and exercising and keeping them crated and on a leash. You sound like a responsible owner to me. I would keep on trucking and give it several weeks. Your female will most likely come around (I have hope for these dogs).

Thanks angela... that was helpful. That is what we are hoping for that she eventually comes around and she takes to him the same way she did with her original companion.

We have been covering their crates when they eat, and keep the crates side by side as well. She does not growl at him when he is outside of the crate and she is in hers though. But she will get annoyed with him when they are both in the crates, especially when he tries desperately to lick her or paw her side of the crate to get her attention.

Both dogs are neutered. We just got the male, a week ago tommorow from a humane society (so 6 days). He is exactly 1 year old (born on oct 5th), but has been at the shelter his entire life. His training is going exactly as we expected.

He has some quirks like being timid around "fake" dogs like our life size dobi memorial statue (but has no issues being around real dogs). He will jump up on you, but the staff at the shelter allowed him to (we don't and are using correction/repetition to change it). He is still young, but will be easily trainable given that he already knows his new name and the basic commands. In ed's world, he is basically thru the learning phase and moving into the obedience phase.

The female, has been thru all 3 phases previously (although at the time i had no idea there were 3 phases; albeit her distraction phase is lacking).

She is great with him outside and even inside in the common areas; as long as there is no playing. But I can run with both of them and they will both watch me and not each other, and there is no agression.

I guess at times the best way to describe her behavior is akin to an overzealous hall monitor. Where she is fine with him normally but if he acts up or goofs off, she attempts to correct him. (which is better then her behavior with other dogs in the past where she just wants to eat them).

That is what is very confusing for me because she does obey both my wife and I. With the exception of toys, but we know that will take allot of work and she was always toy possesive with her previous companion. But he did not care to go after the ball anyways, he just liked you to throw it to him and then you go get it. So it kind of worked out, instead of us retreiving it, she would and bring it back to us.

Anyways, i know 6 days is too early to tell how they are going to be, i am just going on my past experience with her and trying to avoid any pitfalls.

How long have your two been together? How long did it take her to begin showing signs of acceptance and do you remember what the 1st indicators were (besides her ignoring him).

Thanks again....

Well both my fosters came from the same shelter, but they needed a long transport so I got them a week apart. I had the female first and then the male. This was in August.

My situation is a little different as the female turned out to be pregnant (I didn't know at the time). So they were crated as I described for about 3 weeks. During this 3 weeks is when she acted as I described above. Then I moved the female to her own room to have her babies (pups born Aug 29). Then for about 1.5 weeks the female only had quick potty breaks on her own, or maybe with my adopted female (who the mother dog took about a week to warm up to, now they are friends).

Then one day I was tired and running late and took too much time to clean the puppy box, so to save time I decided to try them both out at once on leashes. (By this time 5 weeks have passed since I had them). She first sniffed him OK, but then growled at him so I brought her in. The next time she seemed OK and did not growl. It was kind of a very gradual process.

Her pups are 6 weeks old now, and she even allows the male to come near her babies (well she tries to lure him away/distract him with toys, but does not growl or act aggressive when he goes near them when the babies are in the puppy run). They play together too. They even play tug of war. I would say it was about a total of 5 or 6 weeks.

But remember my dogs were both new to me as they are fosters. Your female was in your home first and you are her pack, and the male is a newcomer. It might take longer for your female to adjust. Just remember not to try to rush things in your eagerness to have them together. They have the rest of their lives!

My main advice to you is DO NOT have the ball out when both dogs are out. This has a good potential to start a fight if your male happens to be close to the ball when she wants it. Definitely definitely do NOT HAVE TOYS around.

If the dogs want to be friends they will start to play with each other, like tag or wrestling.

Another thing to note is my male was VERY playful and he never really gave up trying to get the female to play. I guess he won her over eventually. Your male might not have the social skills to know how to get her to play, especially if he was caged away from other dogs in the shelter. If you know of another good natured dog nearby that WILL play with him, you might try improving his doggie skills that way. So he will know how to initiate play with your girl.

Good luck and let us know how it gets on.

Well the magic happened.

On friday (only 7 days in), molly licked him without trying to eat him. Then they went into full on play. Of course I was not there to witness it, my wife was.

But since friday they have been playing tag outside for 30-40 minutes at a time, running each other into the ground. They also like to play tug of war with a stick (ok, more a branch then a stick) that aggador found. But there has been no blood shed.

So phase 1 is basically complete. She is not actively plotting his death anymore and will play with him.

Phase 2 is to get them both moved thru the distraction phase so they will 100% listen when we need them to. It's still selective listening when they are in play time with each other. When they are not in drive they listen just fine.

Even though they are both ok in the house together with leashes on,(when i say ok, i mean no killing). Leaving them both alone out of their crates is still out of the question. He found that he really likes to chew on things like wood and blankets.

So he will be in his crate for a while until he learns that anything inside is off-limits for chewing. Plus he pees when he gets too excited, and they are too energtic to be left alone. Unless of course I want to come home to a house of broken "everything" that is peed on.

Thanks again for your insight and to ed's training materials/dvd's. they helped immensly.

(who knew that a dog needed to be told something at min 30 times before you can correct him for not doing it)