I saw a really odd and slightly worrying reaction from Teagan tonight.

A friend visited (he has 3 dogs inc 2 Rotties) so is comfortable around dogs. He's been round once before with no problems.
Tonight he popped in, and Teagan went nuts, growling and barking from her crate.

When I let her out, she did the same, but keeing her distance. He did the 'no eye contact, no attention' thing and she started to settle again after sniffing him. I got a treat, called her over, and she sat whilst he gave it to her. This normally means she accepts the person as being 'ok by pack leader'.

However, as soon as he went to pet her, she jumped a mile and started growling/barking again. She settled down but remained very wary She became quite 'clingy' to me, especially when he went to pet her before leaving.

This is VERY unlike Teagan. She used to accept friends after a proper introduction quite easily.

Two weeks ago we had an incident at kennels. She can be quite boisterous with no discipline, which I think is what's been happening. Shalini went to pick her up, with the intention of ' you come out when you calm down - over-excited behaviour not acceptable'.
Unfortunately, the owner got angry, shouted at Teagan to be quiet and sit, then pushed in, grabbed Teagan by the neck/collar and shouted at her to sit/be quiet. He held her as Shalini had to put the leash on, and Teagan had a 'snap'. Shal was shocked and upset by this..... you can imagine my thoughts.

I don't think this is the first time this has happened recently, as she had been 'flighty' when we go near her collar. We can both do it now, but at training this week she appeared really scared of one of the assistants, who also works at the kennels.

I think with time we can build back Teagans confidence - she never had a problem before - but I'm worried now that she'll be forever fearful of new people, which I don't want to develop into fear-aggression.

Any thoughts - other than what you'd do to the kennels?

Rob

DON'T baby her around new people. Don't gush, don't glance at her and be worried. Take precautions to protect visitors (leash, etc) but your "energy" towards Teagan needs to not be concerned. You need to present to her the idea that this is totally normal, and that you're just ignoring her behaviour because she's being a silly puppy.

Check out this thread: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=165728 - specifically the later posts.

 Quote: david eagle

DON'T baby her around new people. Don't gush, don't glance at her and be worried. Take precautions to protect visitors (leash, etc) but your "energy" towards Teagan needs to not be concerned. You need to present to her the idea that this is totally normal, and that you're just ignoring her behaviour because she's being a silly puppy.

Check out this thread: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=165728 - specifically the later posts.

Thanks David. That's exactly what I did, acted as if nothing was wrong and ignored it. I know that 'fussing' her whilst in that state just aggravates the situation.

What worries me is that this was completely out of character, and seems to have increased since her last couple of kennels visits. She was fine at training with the instructors, which adds to my concerns about her mistreatment and the possible effects.

One thing I will ad to David's great comments is the following:

She has associated collar grabbing with forcing/aggressive behavior from humans. Hands coming towards her are now going to be seen as instruments of evil. OK, so that is a dramatic way of putting it, but you get the picture ;O) Essentially, she sees hands coming at her as trying to grab her, not as things she gets pleasant things (petting/scratching/treats) from.

I see this a LOT with a LOT of dogs - avoidance of hands that initiates a "nanner you can't catch me!" game when attempting a recall, and avoidance of hands because you have become something to be worried about - hands now mean stress/unpleasantness.

Don't have people put their hands out at her at first, have them hold their hands low, flat like a paddle, with the fingertips pointing down and only somewhat outstretched, so that she can sniff the hand, do not have them try to pet her for a while. Keep her on a leash, and never get grabby with her. You might want to get a harness for her, depending on how bad she is with avoiding hands towards the face/neck area, and keep her on a leash on the harness in the house when she is loose, and when people come over.

We need to break the collar=instrument of control associated with hands, this may not require a harness, and indeed keeping a collar on is important anyways. I would only harness her if she is showing serious avoidance of your hands, not just strangers.

To make the collar grab/hands on collar a pleasant thing, if she is still comfortable with you and Shalini in holding her collar/grabbing her collar, make a point to touch the collar and give a reward. Then move up from slight pressure on the outside of the collar to putting fingers under the collar, then to holding the collar, then to tugging the collar, with rewards.

One thing though is to make sure the dog is not acting terribly fearful or aggressive during this, preferably she is calm. Timing is important so as not to reward nervousness/fearfullness in general. Be deliberate in the pressure on the collar, the touching of the collar and simultaneous praise/reward with calmness and a collar touch. Try these exercise after physical activity, when she is not an energetic and more likely to be calm.

Never hold onto the dogs collar with your hand for a correction unless it is the last resort (such as in aggression issues that arise when there is no DD collar) The collar/hand now needs to be a happy fun thing. This does not apply to all collar corrections, if a leash is present your hands should not be touching the collar or grabbing for it, the collar can still be used as an instrument of control without further negative impact as long as a leash is used, not the hand.

This is good to have strangers do, also, but the dog has to be comfortable with them in the first place and we always want to avoid potential bites.

I forgot to mention move deliberately but not quickly, grab as in hold onto without being err.. "grabby" if that makes any sense, don't lunge for the collar, but don't act afraid. Once she is accustomed to the collar touch-reward, and she is calmer towards strangers (that have not touched her yet) then you can gauge her reaction to strangers touching the collar/attempting to pet her. The thread David gave a link to, the stranger approach/stranger interaction is explained

Hope this helps

Thanks both - lots of helpful stuff. Jennifer, I hadn't thought about the harness, good idea.

I figured we'd need to rebuild her acceptance of being handled around the collar as a 'nice' thing.

I'm just worried that with all the other stuff she's going through at this time, this could be the last straw and head her to towards fear aggression.

But that's why this site is great - I get the straight answers I need!

So Rob,
I take it the afore mentioned kennel will not be visited again? Except perhaps to steer friends to another boarding place.

Randy

 Quote: randy allen

So Rob,
I take it the afore mentioned kennel will not be visited again? Except perhaps to steer friends to another boarding place.

Randy

Therein lies the problem Randy.........

They appeared to be the best ones in our area, are 10 mins up the road and are flexible with times aound shiftwork.
We HAVE to board Teagan somewhere because of our shifts, and there ain't too many other choices.

We're re-visiting one next week though, when I can walk, so fingers crossed.

Best by reputation or convinence?

Whatever, they'd never see me or my dog again.
Randy

Rob,
The damage to the dog doesn't sound like it can't be dealt with. You've lots of good suggeations to start with from the board members, and I'm sure with patience your dog will come out of it okay. Really though, who needs it? On top of the challenges of rising and maintaining a balanced high drive dog who needs somebody tearing it down when we're not looking. Particularly if those same people are someone we pay to attend to a simple task that amounts to babysitting.
Anybody that thinks they are going to control my dog before me or my other half can, doesn't have to worry about the little dog on the end of the leash, they best look for the biped thats going to be jumping down their throat.


I say keep your dog away from that kennel.
Randy

Randy,

I'm with you 100% on that. They were the best by reputation, the only other one nearby was a bit 'Stepford'. However, if they can treat my dog the way I want, with rules in place, then that's where I'll be going.

And yes, this biped required a verbal prong collar correction from the alpha female to not go down there
Rob