I've been putting this off for quite some time because I know how the wrath of the board can be over certain topics. Still, there are some issues I'm going to have to deal with at some point, and I suppose now is as good a time as any to get the advice and hopefully support of the board. It concerns the well being and enriched lives of my other two dogs. I have expressed my frustration and time constraints when it comes to getting them exercised and mentally stimulated. I am exercising them now because my best friend is driving the kids to school this week, otherwise I am in charge and barely have time to exercise and work w/Levi, who trumps everyone else because of his PP training. Actually, in the summer I CAN work all dogs but in the winter the darkness keeps me more under wraps. Not because of weather but because of fearful neighborhood issues. I think I told you guys why I purchased and chose to train Levi for protection...being outside in the dark is not a very smart thing in this neck of the woods. At least not until I can rely on a dog to be protective and even then, who knows?

Anyway, I've been feeling exceptionally guilty because in spite of my good intentions, I rarely spend time w/my other two dogs. I love both of them dearly and I have been trying to determine what I should do in order to keep them happy and give them good quality of life. These two dogs have always presented particular challenges to me and since the death of my mom and my change in schedule these challenges have only compounded the issues.

My female BC mix is a little rascal & I'm not talking the good kind. She never listens once she is outside. Tail goes up, high dominance and starts looking for something to brawl with! Very high energy, very disobedient dog! Exceptionally cruel to my male lab. Always targeting his bum leg and biting it just to be mean! She drives me out of my cotton pickin mind! I've owned her since she was 6 months and no matter what I have tried she will always do what she wants no matter the consequences. When we rescued her she had been ferrel for about 6 months, from birth to adoption. She survived on her own all that time (she and her sister, actually) and to this day hears the call of the wild. She would take off in a heartbeat if I looked away for one second! If all I had to do all day was to train and work her, I would probably get somewhere (maybe)but I don't have the time. I've even thought about trying to find someone to take her for agility because she is the fastest, most agile dog I've ever seen in my life but then how can I be sure of a good home? It's frustrating to be sure. Besides, I do love her inspite of her naughtiness.

My male lab is a wonderful boy! We adopted him at 4 months because the family that owned him bought him as a playmate for their 1 yr. old female mastiff, who, as we understood it HATED him from day one. They were worried she was going to kill him. turns out she almost did. Smart and loving but he has a leg injury that we discovered only about 1 week after rescuing him. The vet said he had a ripped knee ligament and they did surgery to put a rubberband type thing on it so he could walk normal. It was a debauchery of the worst kind. He has never been the same. He would have been better off w/out the surgery. $2500.00 later the doctor left the practice and they refused to fix him, now he walks w/a terrible limp and the leg turns outward. He's always in pain. No doubt, one of these days the leg is going to blow right out from under him. He has the heart and the energy but not the capability. He doesn't know this, of course, he will hurt himself if I let him. So, I don't want to exercise him too much at all anyway. Doc's said eventually the injured leg will go or the leg holding all the weight will finally give out. It sucks!

I know what you are all thinking...maybe I shouldn't have three dogs then. Please remember though that when I got the first two I did have the time for them. Things have changed. Levi was bought for a specific purpose and therefore does get the primary attention. That was also a time when ignorance was bliss. Joining this forum and educating myself on the reality of good dog ownership has changed all that. It still doesn't change the fact that life changed and circumstances are different. So what do you do? Rehome the dogs? Who is going to want a dog with a leg injury? Who is going to want a dog that is so wild that she is barely controllable? I still take full responsibility and give them a loving, safe home. Yet I feel guilty because they don't get the attention and exercise that I would like to be able to give them. What do I do? Am I a terrible owner? I want them to be happy, they do get love and attention from the family as life/time allows but not the full measure of what I want to give them or what they deserve. Would they be better off with other families that can spend more time w/them? Or should I feel glad that I give them a raw fed home with love and safety? I'd respect your opinions. It's been haunting me for a while now. I don't want to talk myself into feeling like I am doing right by them. I want to be responsible and do the right thing. Your honest opinions would be appreciated.

Sounds like the BC needs some OB work. That's "quality time." And short carefully-chosen motivational training is also one-on-one with the Lab.

Ditto what Connie said.

Quite honestly, in the time it takes to type up a lengthy post on this forum, you could do a short and very meaningful obedience session with one of the dogs.

Quality time doesn't mean mindless hours spent fawning over dogs. It's giving the dogs what they need emotionally and physically and that doesn't have to take up a lot of your day.

I cannot give you any advice really of what to do,
but you are not a bad Owner, far from it thats for sure, the Dogs look Fabulous.
I cannot imagine what it is like where you live when it is not safe to walk outside at night,
More so if it is a Woman walking, Dogs do take up a lot of Time, as do all animals and birds, My day starts at 5.45 in the Mornings working outside, and of course its Dark and Cold now and on three nights a week when training the Two Dogs i get home at 11.oclock at night, its a lot of Hours but i cannot stand or sit still.
If you can get a nice home for the BC, it would make it a little easier for you with the family to look after, but not an easy thing to do parting with a Dog, But think of the two left who will get more of your time

 Quote: Cindy Easton Rhodes

Ditto what Connie said.

Quite honestly, in the time it takes to type up a lengthy post on this forum, you could do a short and very meaningful obedience session with one of the dogs.

 Quote:

Quality time doesn't mean mindless hours spent fawning over dogs.

Today the time was spent with the dogs (although this is not always the case)prior to posting, however you did drive your point home. I'm not sure if this was meant matter of factly or if the comment was meant to hurt, either way, it succeeded.

 Quote:

It's giving the dogs what they need emotionally and physically and that doesn't have to take up a lot of your day.

With this comment I will agree. Working w/my lab can be a breeze. That is once he stops bouncing off the walls. He enjoys our time and we do quite well together. However, I have to disagree when it comes to the female. She is the most obstinate and stubborn of any dog I've ever known. Either way, it appears that the concensus is stick with it and keep trying. NO matter the time constraints. This was the advice I asked for. Thank you.

Robbin, I think I can guess pretty solidly that the "long post vs. short training session" comment was strictly a wake-up to that fact that short upbeat training sessions, one-on-one, with each dog..... this is HUGE.

Nothing hurtful about it; this is a dog forum.

We all have to find our way.

But after many years and many dogs, mine and others, I can promise you that a structured schedule of time spent with each dog will change both their behavior and your bond with each one.

You will wonder how you ever did without it.

Even a five-minute walk with one (or even one on each side) is a pack-structure lesson.....

I think you would see a difference in the BC within days if short OB sessions were incorporated into each day.

Also, I cannot say enough about the new "Pack Structure" video.

My dogs are my life. When they came to live with me, I made them a promise. That promise was that they will have a home with me til their last breath. This promise is give to all animals that come to live with me and I take it very seriously.

I do not have a lot of time. I work 10 or more hours a day, I also go to school part time, I have been in training for agility, I have chores to do (feeding the horses, dogs, BF and cat) as well as household work. BUT I make time for my animals. Each horse is looked at thoroughly EVERY night to make sure they have not been injured, as well as a short handing session before they get fed. Each dog is given quality time apart from the others. The Mals get a short 2 minute training session (I grab a hand full of treats and work on something. When the treats are gone, training is done.)

There are days that I don't want to do it all.. but I do because of the level of commitment I feel for my dogs. They deserve it....

Just my 2 cents.

 Quote: kelly at leerburg

The Mals get a short 2 minute training session (I grab a hand full of treats and work on something.

Not to beat this point to death, but that's what I mean about incorporating little training sessions into each day. I'm the type who would put stuff off until I have a mythical half-day to "REALLY do it RIGHT," and I have to work against that mind-set all the time. For one thing, daily short sessions IS doing it "right."

I will run through basic ob if we are not working on something in particular. Or that 5-minute walk at a casual heel.

Robbin,

Are those the dogs in your sig pic? their coats look glossy, their eyes bright... not like neglected dogs at all.

Are you sure the female has BC in her, she looks just like your Lab.

Is it possible to exercise your female separately than your male? It is really not fair to the male to be picked on by her. Remember, it is your job as pack leader to protect the pack members.

When I get a new foster that is not bonded to me, untrained, and unsocialized (and therefore acts like you describe your girl) I never give them the opportunity to act obstinate and out of control. Just like a puppy, they are crated unless I am working with them directly. (This assumes you have time to let the dog out enogh times in a day). When the dog is out of its crate it is on a leash and when it is in the yard, long line.

When I want the dog in, I just go get its line and lead it in the house. When it tries to chew, misbehave, pick on another dog, they have a leash on so I can stop it right away.

I would say it takes a max of about 3 months for a dog to figure out that it's not going to get away with acting like an idiot and to fall in line.

I also do bond-building exercises like motivational training (treats), fun games like fetch (though, my breed is the Catahoula who is not a natural retreiver - I reel them in with their long line). We also go to obedience school (I know, Ed hates these, but I find it's great for socializing where a dog learns to focus on the handler rather than on the other dogs/people). I have found that when there is one night a week set aside for school, and we do our homework for at least 5 minutes/day, the bond grows immensely and the dog responds much better to me.

I have two pups and two adult dogs. They are two separate "packs". In the morning, I let the pups out first, play with them, for about 1/2 hour then feed them and put them away. Then the adult dogs go out, play with each other, play with me, then I feed them and put them away then I go to work.

You could do this with your dogs - let your female out, play with her (even 15-20 minutes) feed her then crate her. Let Levi and your Lab out, they can play with each other in the yard while you get your kids ready, then bring them in feed them and crate them.

Hope this helps...

EDIT: lol, I think that's what Cindy was talking about.. during the time it took me to type this response, three other people posted. Haha..

You have to stick with it! If you can work 3 dogs with...is it 3 kids? Then maybe I can convince my wife to let me get a malimonster once Macy turns 3! Come on Robbin. Do it for ME.

Hehe. Seriously though, take a month, develop a crate rotation, rely on that and focus on shorter amounts of more individual attention. There's no reason that you can't have two pets who share a schedule that means they are only free one at a time. Maybe the first time they come out is 5 minutes of two-ball fetch (not for the injured one, of course), followed by 2 minutes of OB, 30 minutes of free house time (while you DO stuff), then rotate to the next dog. The second time out could be 3 minutes of OB, a 5 minute walk, and an hour of house time, then rotate. They can be in the crate for several hours between these times. What does this cost you? Less than 10 minutes per dog of "Hands on" work, and an hour and a half of free time in the house (during which they ARE being nurtured by interacting with you, even if it just means being in the same room you're in). The time cost can be very low, and if you're structured YOU will realize how easy it is.

If, after a month of this, you're still concerned, re-evaluate your pack. A technique we use to troubleshoot IT issues can be applied to working with dogs. It's called I.A.P.I.E. (I, A Pie!), and stands for "Identify, Analyze, Plan, Implement, Evaluate".

Identify the problem (dogs are restless and destructive)
Analyze the problem (Dogs are restless because they don't get enough exercise)
Plan a solution (Develop a template of exercise like the one that I suggest above, tailor it to your needs, document it)
Implement your plan
Evaluate your progress. After a few weeks, you evaluate. If any problems persist, or if new problems have occured, you start again at I (Identify). This type of cyclical process is crucial to long-term problem solving.