While reading some info re: dealing w/female dogs in heat, I started wondering: What (if any) issues may I have to deal with having an intact male house dog? Until I found Leerburg's site, I always intended to neuter Kodee around 6 mos old. Thankfully, I have learned so much from this site, that I now know it isn't the best thing for Kodee. (I used to work for a vet, and of course all pet owners were strongly encouraged to spay/neater by 6mos of age, and I thought that was gospel until recently.) My intentions now are to not neuter Kodee at all. He is a house pet, and he is never outdoors loose, even in our own yard. He is on a leash or long line at all times, so he's always under my control. Therefore, I won't be contributing to the overabundance of unwanted puppies in the world.

However, aside from marking in the house (which I don't expect him to do, as it's my understanding that males normally don't do this if they know their place in the pack, as Kodee does), what other behaviors can occur with an intact male house dog? What happens if he smells a dog in heat somewhere? Or can he do smell them from indoors at all, if the female is out away from our house? Do males try to get out of the house to get to a female in heat?

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but I can't learn if I don't ask

Kori, I am in a hurry but I haven't had any issues at all with any of mine, ever. I have had one or two new ones mark in the house, but they quit after the first week or so. Caleb has for sure been around a female in heat; I told him "leave it." I'm sure the others have too, but he's the only one I actually SAW with a female I KNEW was in heat. I am sure some wander and will get away with what you allow them to, but personally, I haven't had any of the so-called "problems" people associate w/intact males, other than fighting over a female/possessions, etc., and that's quite manageable. JME.

I wouldn't assume that your dog won't mark in the house even if he knows his place in the pack.

Marking is territorial so even if he does know his place, there may be a chance that if someone he doesn't know comes into your house he may try to mark just to show the newcomer that this is his territory & he feels he's above that person. Especially if you aren't around. Once you are out of the room he may feel the need to show this person that now that You (top dog) are gone, he's next in line, not them.

My previous dog was unaltered and at one point in time I had a room-mate for a year. I didn't let her have much interaction with Taz. But on a couple of occassions I would have to work late and I would call and ask her if she could let him out of my room to go outside for a pee break. I would always ask her to put him back in my room but on occassion when I was going to be very late I would let her keep him out. And a few times on those occassions when i wasn't around and she was there he would sometimes go in her room and mark on the corner of her bed. He would never do anyting of the sort when I was around. Only if I wasn't there. I have a feeling people are going to say if he was marking indoors he didn't know his place in the pack, but let me just clarify that he did know his place. The only time he did anything like that was when i wasn't there. And it was never him marking anywhere other than on her bed or in her room...a room that he was never allowed into while i was around.

As for the other aspect of him with females in heat....i never had Taz try to get out at a female in heat. And yes, there were people in our townhouse compelex who had unaltered females. Yes he showed more interest but he wasn't desperately trying to get to them.

The only time he ever showed too much interest in a female and didn't respond to a command the first time he heard it was when we came across a female coyote who i can only assume was in heat.
she was following us and would roll around on the ground playfully and make whining noises. When we kept going she would pop up and follow us but the second we would stop and turn around to look she would drop to the ground and start her little rolling around routine. She was definately trying to intice him over.

Just be diligent, keep an eye on him and even if there is a female in heat somewhere im sure you'll be fine.

Of course others will have a different opinion on the whole "not marking in the house if he knows his place in the pack"

this should be interesting.

Like Jenni, I have not had any issues with my male in the house beyond the original house breaking stuff. Oh yeah and he had an unaltered female for nearly three years in our home. No excessive humping of random objects and no howling at the moon when any female is in heat .

I can see his excitement (his stub goes crazy and forehead gets all wrinkly) but he does not worry. It is more about control than anything else. One more, albeit less common, thing to proof on.

As for the marking, I would have to say it is a housebreaking/structure thing . If I had to explain why Wendy’s dog would mark on a roommates bed, it be because he viewed the friend as an intruder. More of an “I’ll show you where you stand…” But quite honestly a house broke dog shouldn’t do it. If the dog is aloud out of sight by the roommate, she aloud him to break the rules; he should have been corrected for breaking a pack rule and a house rule. Not Wendy’s fault, or the dogs .

I take my male to many friends’ homes, and even when I am showing vacant property to clients, and he does not attempt to mark at any of them (OK well he tried a couple of times , but was corrected and taken out side, part of the house training stuff.)

Don’t worry so much, he’ll do great, and with all of the work you have been doing on him, you should have minimal problems!

My family's old Pomeranian was intact for all of his 17 years and NEVER marked in our house. He was known to mark indoors if he was taken to a place where other dogs lived or frequented (which was very rare), but we weren't diligent about watching him and not allowing it. He didn't have humping problems, nor did he pine away for the "ladies" (a pair of cocker bitches 2 houses down) when they were in heat. He WAS painfully ill mannered and untrained and got let out the back door into the neighborhood whenever he needed to go out - hence he DID roam quite a bit, but those were all our fault as newbie dog owners (living in a pretty sleepy rural area to boot). *And yes, I will feel like we failed him until the day I die ... but alas, I was only 14 when we got him... and all in all, he lived a sweet life.

My current male was neutered at 2, per breeder contract, but even though he weighs about 87lbs more than the Pom, he too NEVER marked in the house, nor exhibited any excessive, "stereotypical" male behavior. Honestly, I think most of the issues people are warned about are either blown out of proportion, or the result of poor leadership and training on the part of the owner/handler. I don't disagree that peeing all over the house and wasting away staring out the window at females in heat does actually happen, but I bet a lot of those cases could be seriously improved by basic ground rules and a better/different relationship with the dog.

Just my 2 cents.

~Natalya

I totally agree...his structure with the room-mate was not defined as I never saw the reason for him to have much association with her. So I believe he was confused as to where he stood (as far as she was concerned)because it was always only in her room, a room I never ever allowed him in. And yes, she didn't follow my rules with him (she never really kept an eye on him) so it was definately a structure issue regarding her. Definately not a Housebreaking issue. He was 100% housebroken and he never marked any other place except her room, when he managed to get into it.

That is what I mean by even though the dog knows his place in the pack with her immediate family, the dog may associate any new comer as a strange animal coming into his territory and may mark to try and show his territory. Im not saying it isn't correctable. If Taz ever tried that when I was around he would get a correction, unfortunately he only did it when I wasn't there. And I definately was not going to tell her to correct him for it. So in the end she (the room-mate) learned the hard way to keep her bedroom door shut. Problem was then solved and the issue never came up again...ever.

I dont' think you can lay a blanket assumption though that because a dog marks inside is a groundwork or housebreaking issue.
There are many factors as to why a dog will mark or pee inside. One post said he NEVER peed inside, except at the vets, and another poster said he never peed inside at their house, but would mark at other peoples houses. So since, in those two instances the dogs did pee inside, regardless of the situations they were in, are you still saying any marking inside is a groundwork or housebreaking issue, or are you saying there ARE instances where a intact MALE dog WILL mark inside. Both posts kind of contradict themselves.
A housebroke dog is a housebroke dog...shouldn't matter if you are at your house or your sisters house? Right?

not trying to argue, just trying to explain my point on view on the whole marking thing.

I haven't had any problems with indoor marking and I agree it's a housebreaking/groundwork issue if it happens. The only time True ever marked indoors was at the vet.

Wendy, I certainly was not trying to say anything about you or your dog, or trying to make statements that could be misconstrued.

MY intact dog does not mark indoors. When he did as a pup, he was corrected. I attributed it as basic housebreaking/structure rules. He has not done it since puppyhood. As a matter of fact, my female also had an accident or two at strange homes after I thought she, at six months, was past that. Again she was corrected and she learned that ANY indoor place was off limits. It is a proofing thing. I never really cared why they did, it was against the rules, and they had to be shown that it was unacceptable.

Nothing personal just my experiences and opinion.

Jessica no worries. Trust me i knew you weren't saying anything against me. And trust me, Im just discussing the issue, sometimes on the internet things come across the wrong way, which is why i put Im not trying to argue...just sharing my opinion.

With Taz, he never ever did anything marking wise until the room-mate moved in. And after she moved out there was never another episode of it.

I would've corrected Taz, but like I said, unfortunately he would never even think to do such a thing when I was around.
so that is why im thinking it was more him saying to her...just like you said...this is mine. And as long as she kept her door shut the issue was resolved.

I LOVE discussing stuff like this and hearing different opinions. And i just don't think a blanket assumption that the reason a dog marks is bad groundwork or he wasn't fully housebroken. I do think there are instances where an un-altered male dog will mark inside (im not talking a full stream of pee like he would do outside to relieve himself...im talking very little, just enough to leave a scent) to try to assert himself when a new element is brought into the household.

It was just unfortunate that he never did it when i was around...there was no way for me to correct him.

so don't worry, im not thinking you're coming down on me saying I don't know what im talking about...lol. I have a tough skin.
I just like to throw different ideas out and see what comes back from people on here.

Wendy

sorry, i just wanted to add that I guess you could say it might be a slight groundwork issue. Not between me and Taz though. He knew where he stood with me but maybe because he didn't know exactly where he stood with the room-=mate because they had very very limited access to each other is the reason he was trying to assert his rank. If I wasn't home Taz was always in my room until i came home.



Edited by Wendy Lefebvre (02/06/2008 12:24 PM)
Edit reason: thought of something

We've never had any problem with any of our intact males marking in the house, or behaving in any other detrimental way in the house because they were intact. But even though they live very nicely with females, our males have always hated each other and any other males they've come in contact with. Of course they haven't been allowed behave badly, but I still wouldn't allow an inexperienced person to handle one of these guys around other male dogs. They've also historicly been quite determined to get to a female in heat, often performing ingenious bits of escapism, though their plans had always been foiled by us . These guys have been stud dogs though, and maybe that makes a difference. I've never kept a dog intact that I didn't intend to breed so I'm not sure if there's a behavior differnce or not.