Last year, I started rescue work. I have studied as best I can for the last year, some of the dog psychology books this forum recommended.
I also, have a brother in law, who is in law enforcement and has mentioned, dogs breaking down. I have seen one episode with Cesar,where the service dog, was broke down.
To me, I consider it, like a mental breakdown people have. Most of the meds that are dispensed for doggie disorders, are people meds.I have just started this practice, and have seen good results on some dogs.
Could anyone tell me, how to bring back a dog that is shut down. I know there will be instances, where treatment will be changed according to dogs response. But still, do you think a dark quite room with soft music, and beginning of meds, just like you would a mental patient, would be the approach?

1. What do you think, causes a dog to mentally shut down.
2. Are there differnt types of "Shut Down"?
3. How do you start, to bring a dog back like that.
4. What do you think of meds, for dogs, and if you have used, what did you use?

There are vastly different reason for "shutdown." The reason is important in the treatment.

PTSD and continued abuse are two possible triggers. Even severe unrelenting pain has been known in rare cases to trigger shutdown.

I worked with a dog last year who had been seized in an abuse crackdown, and all he would do was lie in a corner of a room and tremble, making no eye contact and looking at no one.

My approach was a combination of methods, but it was decided on by the individual dog. For example, he exhibited some small interest when another dog was in the vicinity, so my Mr. Calming Signal dog came with me.

Denise, I personally don't believe in the use of anti depression and chemical type anti depressants in animals. I think that natural calmatives can be of very good use but in the short term, to calm the animal down enough to work a little to build that tiny foundation that is sometimes needed before more work can be done. But a drugged up dog is not themself, they are not in their natural state and so behavior will differ. If you are trying to work a dog through a behavior that is does not exhibit with medication you either have to take the dog off or never stop the medication - my preferance is if I use anything, it is a natural safe calmative used a few times, very sparingly, to take the edge off to relieve the stress until a trust can begin to develop.

Dogs can shut down for various reasons, Connie listed a few. What shuts a dog down depends on the dog. What is done to help the dog also depends on the dog and what caused the shut down. Sometimes you won't know what the cause was you just have the leftovers, the aftermath of some unknown horror. When I train a dog, if I have a history its a bonus that I take into consideration but I train and treat the dog, not the experiences it has had.

The wide range of temperaments and things that can shut a dog down prevent me from saying do X for X because it will vary so much.

Connie mentioned bringing another dog, a calm balanced dog. That can work wonders! Other animals(different species) can as well at times. I knew an old farm dog that had been hit by a truck and shut down, he became terrified of all large objects that moved. About a year later the owners daughters wanted a baby pygmy goat. The dog became very interested in the little bugger, and his curiousity overcame some of his fears, and the dog developed a bond with that goat and as long as she was around the dog was fine, a couple months later they got him loaded into their truck and he was "back to his old self."

Observing the dogs is a huge part of it, you need to find out what the triggers are or if everything watch and see if anything at all seems to calm the dog, and use that as your way in. You need to build a trust, bond, and respect with the dog before you try to work on any of the problems.

I will say that a dark room and soft music would drive me absolutely batty! I used to suffer from SAD pretty badly from a traumatic experience when I was younger. Being in dark places *bothered* me very much, but for others it is what they need. For me and quite a few people I know, sunlight and upbeat music and laughter helps. It really depends on the dog, there is no one size fits all.

I had a rescue dog years ago that had to be medicated for the first year that I had him. He was a rescued pit bull, who had a former life as a fighter. He spent 8 months at the shelter and was adopted out 4 times, then returned almost the next day. By the time I got him, he had jumped out of a 3 story window, eaten through a sheet rock wall, broken more collars and tie outs than anyone could count, destroyed two outdoor dog runs, and several crates.
He has also chipped the corner of his eye socket bashing his head against the latch at the shelter in an attempt to get out.
Medication was the only way to get this dog to slow down enough to work with him. Once he was medicated, he made enormous progress and ended up as a therapy dog and a S&R dog. But he never would have made progress as quickly as he did without the help of chemicals. Yes, I'm positive he could have done it without the meds - he was a great dog with a really horrible start to life, and he had every reason to act the way that he did. But it would have taken much longer. In the end, the decision to medicate was based on what was best for him. I felt it was cruel to ask this dog to deal with everything for longer just because I had an issue with him being medicated. (I really didn't like the idea, myself) It might not be the best situation for every dog, but there are times when it is necessary.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

But a drugged up dog is not themself, they are not in their natural state and so behavior will differ. If you are trying to work a dog through a behavior that is does not exhibit with medication you either have to take the dog off or never stop the medication - my preferance is if I use anything, it is a natural safe calmative used a few times, very sparingly, to take the edge off to relieve the stress until a trust can begin to develop.

For the record, Tonka, the dog I was referring to above, was on a pretty high dose to have an effect, so he was a bit slower for awhile while he adjusted. But after about 4 months his dose was halfed to maintain where he was at. By the end of a year we completely weaned him off totally. There was really no major change in his OB level at that point, his energy level increased and his daily exercise had to increase to offset it. Alot of the transition had to do with how he was treated. Keeping all expectations and boundaries the same, and expecting the same OB level had a lot to do with it. I thought of it similar to a pup learning to be crated - act like nothing is out of the ordinary, and the dog believes it. YOU know that he was medicated daily, but HE doesn't - just feels different. There are times when it will give the dog a "leg up" in getting over a seriously traumatic issue, resulting in a happier healthier dog on the long run. Reading a lot, and education is the only way to know what the best approach, and it will be different for every dog. It's always important to KNOW YOUR OWN LIMITATIONS before getting in over your head.

Edited by Cameron Feathers (05/18/2008 05:49 PM)
Edit reason: clarification

I would add that working with a dog who has shut down is ideally for very experienced people (IMO), and even that isn't all that's needed; a ton of patience is necessary.

What I would do is to try to get into a situation where you can follow along with someone who works with last-resort dogs for a while. Someone who will talk as they assess and point out body language and subtle responses is invaluable. I started in a shelter as a volunteer, and working up from dog-walker to aggressive-dog handler can be a whole education .... free. Your position in rescue will afford you similar opportunities. I'd start slowly and work into the major problems.

Practically speaking, I know that sometimes whoever will take it on is going to get the job, and I would mention that success, even for the most experienced, is not a sure thing. OTOH, what satisfaction you will get from the successes that you do have. The dog who would do nothing but lie in a corner and tremble, looking at no one and nothing, now comes in his owner's car to visit, and plays with my dogs when he gets here. He still can't deal with big men, but his progress has been incredible.

The first day I went to see him, I brought a plate of just-cooked bacon and sat near the dog, not facing him, talking to the owner who stood in the doorway.


Old Earth Dog Bob Scott, Mike Schoonbrood, and David Frost all helped me via email with that dog, and I needed all the suggestions I could get.

Cameron, it is good to hear of a possitive experience with meds. That would be a case that I could see using them, but I still would prefer natural calmatives. IMO a lot of people expect medication to be the fix, the behavior goes away with the medication or reduces so they don't work with the dog.

It is strictly my opinion to prefer not to medicate for anything but really severe cases of behavior issues. Medical/health is a different matter though I still prefer preventative measures and natural ways. This is an outlook that I apply to all my animals as well as myself, however. I rarely even take pain medication unless it is for something that impedes my ability to function like I am nursing a torn rotator cuff right now.

Then again I'm the type that puts everything on hold, because I am lucky/fortunate enough to be able to do so, to work with animals. So other people may have full time jobs to work around I can take the time to work 24/7 with the animal or work my schedule to only be gone for 4 hours at a time.

I'm the "time heals" kind of person but I am sure I will encounter a dog in the future that for their own safety should be mildly sedated or given medication.

Just wanted to make sure it was clear that this is purely my opinion.

Denise,
You've gotten some very good responses from some of the ones that know. The ones that have dealt with the types of issues that from some perspectives, are lost causes. And very likely you'll heard from more, as this board has a quite a number of those special trainers some call magicians of the dog world.
What I wanted to add to this conversation is, so often people get caught up in some lock step procedure without thinking or giving credence to perhaps a lesser invasive method. Jeesh is that all muddled enough?
What I'm trying to say is that from the leash, collar and patience through to the heavy hammer of drugs, they are all part of a tool box that can be used for the rehab of those 'lost causes'. Just don't get caught up in the one size fits all mentality.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

 Quote: randy allen

What I'm trying to say is that from the leash, collar and patience through to the heavy hammer of drugs, they are all part of a tool box that can be used for the rehab of those 'lost causes'. Just don't get caught up in the one size fits all mentality.

That's probably #1, Randy.

From the comfort of another dog's presence (definitely not one-size-fits-all) to counter-conditioning and desensitizing, every troubled dog is different.

One thread seems to run through, though, no matter what: motivational positive training in short upbeat sessions (the Leerburg Marker Training article is priceless) really seems to benefit just about all dogs, once the dog has started responding to you, both to build his confidence and to establish a bond. And your own calm demeanor, always patient and low-key but upbeat ---- that's invaluable.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

Then again I'm the type that puts everything on hold, because I am lucky/fortunate enough to be able to do so, to work with animals. So other people may have full time jobs to work around I can take the time to work 24/7 with the animal or work my schedule to only be gone for 4 hours at a time.

I'm the "time heals" kind of person but I am sure I will encounter a dog in the future that for their own safety should be mildly sedated or given medication.

Just wanted to make sure it was clear that this is purely my opinion.

I had to quit my job to work with this dog. I had the ability to do some free lance work where I could actually take him with me during the summer. The reason it took me 8 months to finally agree to work with him was because he was probably the MOST severe case I have ever had to work with. I had to make sure that I had the time and resources to work with him. Only when the time was right was I able to take him on. The medication was NOT the "fix" for this dog, nor should it ever be looked at as the "fix". Training, lots of patience, and TIME were the "fix" the medication just allowed the dog the ability to "relax" so that the healing had the best chance. In his case, it was for safety reasons as well... he was an extremely abused case - one of his canines were broken under the gum line, the rest were filed down, and he had MASSIVE scars all over his face and chest. I will tell anyone who is looking to do this kind of work, it is HARD. Sometimes impossible. Make sure that you know what you are getting yourself into BEFORE you get into it. Make sure you can handle a "worst case scenario" with EVERY one you seek out to help, and do your best to be realistic about your skill level, what you are comfortable with, and where the dog is at. If you are not, you will run into problems that may turn good intentions into yet another situation the abused animal must survive. I don't mean to be negative, just trying to be realistic. I have seen some really great people who meant well get themselves into some sticky situations that ultimately made life for the animal and the people involved very difficult.

Edited by Cameron Feathers (05/18/2008 08:43 PM)
Edit reason: spelling