After doing the elimination diet and then getting Kasey all set on the raw feeding, we are still fighting the itching. It's been worse these last few days especially around the base of his tail. He bites around there a lot and now there's a hot spot! Grrrr! He licks his paws so much that the fur between his pads is that red rust color. I wash them everyday, I keep him off the grass, I'm giving him all the supplements in the Allergy Solution book from this website. And nothing helps. I guess I'm going to have to go to a dog dermatologist now, but I know how that will go. They won't like what I feed him and they'll want to do allergy testing - which I know so many people, even my 2 vets, who say that that is hit and miss.

Sorry to rant, I'm so frustrated! I think it's worse because I did this for 10 years with my prior dog that died last year, so I'm tired!

Lori

How long was he on the elimination diet and how long on the raw?

 Quote: Lori Hall

After doing the elimination diet and then getting Kasey all set on the raw feeding, we are still fighting the itching. It's been worse these last few days especially around the base of his tail. He bites around there a lot and now there's a hot spot! Grrrr! He licks his paws so much that the fur between his pads is that red rust color. I wash them everyday, I keep him off the grass, I'm giving him all the supplements in the Allergy Solution book from this website. And nothing helps. I guess I'm going to have to go to a dog dermatologist now, but I know how that will go. They won't like what I feed him and they'll want to do allergy testing - which I know so many people, even my 2 vets, who say that that is hit and miss.

Sorry to rant, I'm so frustrated! I think it's worse because I did this for 10 years with my prior dog that died last year, so I'm tired!

Lori

Why do you think it's food?

How long did you trial chlorpheniramine and hydroxyzine (or did you)?

What was the elimination diet? Do you mean some kind of vet-office diet or a fresh limited-ingredient novel-protein diet? How long? Result?

More info.


P.S. There are two (basic) types of testing. Neither one can identify food allergens.... ONLY a real elimination diet (novel, limited ingredients, many weeks). Then the system is challenged AFTER the diet has proven that yes, there were food allergies (because now they are gone) with one-at-a-time re-adding of the old foods.

For other allergies (far more likely, you probably know), there are the not-very-useful RAST and ELISA (blood) tests and the much-more-useful skin tests, which are still only about 75% or so accurate (but that's a lot).

Only a derm vet can do the skin test, generally, and I know of regular vets who do the blood tests without even mentioning how not-very-useful they are because (I believe) they get the fee.

P.S. Are you 100% certain about fleas, which (to a hypersensitive dog) can cause misery with one exposure?

We did the elimination diet for 2 1/2 months with only hamburger and sweet potatoes (he had never had beef - he had eaten most of the other proteins in the single source kibbles). He did seem to do a little better on the hamburger than kibble. We did the duck and potato kibble thing first - no difference. He has been eating the raw now for a little over 2 months. I kept it very simple and only introduced chicken to the hamburger - no reaction. So I've been sticking with those two proteins, pumpkin, and all the supplements.

There are definitely NO fleas. We have to use Frontline or something here because there are fleas year round if you don't - beach city of So. California doesn't get cold enough to kill them even in the winter. So I never see fleas on him (and I check often) or in our house.

We have been using both of those antihistimines for some months now - they both help a little, but not a lot. Although the vet said today I need to up the chlorpheniramine dosage - I was only giving 2, he can have 3.

The vet said that the blood tests are not worth much, and she said the skin ones are better, but still many dogs are not helped by them. She is giving me the name of a dermo vet, but says we may have to wait till fall (because she doubts he can be off antihistimes for the period of time you need to be before skin testing without itching even more). So I may go see him and get an opinion on the situation.

Kasey, if you look at him, looks really good. His coat is shiny, he is not smelly at all, he doesn't have dry, flaky skin, and the 'bumps' he gets, that look like pimples, are so far limited to base of tail on back, under arms and a few occassionally on inner thighs. It's just that he bites down his legs a lot, scratches face, ears, and under arms and that is going to eventually start causing skin damage and more hot spots. Plus he's uncomfortable.So I have to try to do something.

Oh, Connie, you asked why I think it's food? I don't anymore - the elimination diets - both kibble and fresh proved that!

OK, gotcha.

I just want to say that the skin test (and the blood tests) don't "help" the dog in any way.

Theresults of the skin test are what you're looking for.

When you know the worst of the allergens, decisions can be made, like whether to try desensitizing injections (which might have been what the vet meant by "doesn't help all dogs; they don't, although I have had good luck), whether there is a plant in your yard that can be removed, whether the worst of his allergens is in bloom for only a month and that the month might be managed with low-dose Pred, etc. It tells you whether airborn particles are the worst (based on which plant) or whether he's tracking them in from the ground.

It's the potential info that's valuable.

Are you keeping a log?

Mike Armstrong pointed this out to me loooong ago, and now I will never try to treat or change food or anything without one. There's no way to remem,ber what was in season and whether he had been outside and whether he had antihistamines, that day, etc., etc., when you want to pinpoint seasonal allergies (or anything).

Oh -- and is the dog on daily live-culture plain yogurt? Mentioning Mike Armstrong (a forum member) reminded me. He also recommended the probiotics book to me, and my allergic dog is now on quite a bit of varying live-culture yogurts (varying so that I get more types of cultures).

Do you give your dog any type of fish oil and vitamin e and c? I live in So Cal and we have had such weird weather especially with the heat that the dogs seem to get itchier than years past. I give mine salmon body oil capsules for an omega 3 source and the vitamin e and c also help the skin. You also might want to look into adding a vitamin d source to his diet as well. If he isn't outside in the sun, there is no vitamin d in most foods and this is necessary for good skin health. Do some research on this and see if it might help.
I have found every dog has different needs as far as the fish oil goes. Some of mine get more than others. Also make sure you have enough fat in the diet. My dog was on hydroxizine last year and I had to double the dose for him to be comfortable. so far he isn't too bad, only occasional scratching.
Was your dog recently vaccinated? I have found mine that have had few or no vaccines do not seem to have skin issues. Also make sure the chicken has no enhancements. Mine will get itchy dsometimes after eating certain brands of chicken. It is not a huge issue for my dogs as they rarely get chicken, but if you are feeding this alot, it could be part of the problem.

You also might want to consider consulting a homeopath and try getting relief that way.
Good luck, I hope you can find you dog some relief.
Diana

Holy cow, I took the fish oil and E for granted. It's my number 2 step (after a raw diet) for all allergic dogs (or ANY skin problems).

Shame on me.