Okay, so I have a 13 week old St Bernard puppy. I got her when she was just at 8 weeks and I am having a problem with potty training. Basically, she pees in her crate. I give her just enough room to move around in the crate. She really doesn't have the space to relieve herself in a corner and sleep on another side. She will pee in the middle of the night which is generally sometime between 11-5 AM. For me, waking up between then is really tough because I don't have any idea when she is doing this. She does not whine or bark to get out. She will pee when I am at work. Generally, I go into work at 8 AM then come home at 12 PM for my lunch to let her out. By then she is soaked in pee. I go back to work at 1 and come back around 5 and she has peed again. I have tried cutting off her water at 7 PM...no luck. I am trying extreme praise...no luck. It almost seems like she is aiming her pee to the other side of the crate (the part that is blocked off).

Another thing is she chugs water as if she has been outside in the sun all day. When I give her meals, she will have a few bites but just want more water. I literally had to mix her food with water so she will eat her food. One time, I measured that she drank nearly two liters of water! It's not like I don't give her water either.

I took her to the vet and told the guy what was going on and he didn't seem concerned, which sort of surprised me. I really feel like something is wrong here. Am I wrong? Are all of these things something a dog will grow out of? I really feel like if this continues for too long my dog will grow accustomed to being in it's pee and understand peeing in it's crate as expected behavior. Any help please?

Hi Mark,

Puppies tend to drink a lot of water (at least the ones that I have had did) since their metabolism is higher and they are growing; therefore, needs a lot of water. When my pups were that age, they easily drank a whole bowl of water. Since you doubt the vet's opinion, perhaps seek a second one or ask the breeder. I am not familiar with St. Bernards so I cannot tell you about how much a pup would drink.

With the crate training problem, have you read Ed's lengthy and very thorough article on this topic? It is about 150+ pages of excellent material and he answers a great number of questions.

Also, do you feed the pup in the crate? And, is the crate too large for her? The other thing to keep in mind is to make sure she goes before you put her in the crate as well as gauge when to remove water. Depending on your schedule, I would take water away at around 8 or 9PM and take her out to pee right before bed (around 11PM). With a pup this age, you probably will have to set an alarm clock for yourself every 4-5 hours to get up and take her right out (do not pet her or anything), give her the "pee command" when she's out there and just wait until she goes (this may take a while in the beginning, but she will get it).

SM

Mark, can you describe your potty schedule with her a little more?

Are you taking her out for a potty break immediately before putting her in her crate in the morning? (just before you go to work?) Are you rewarding her when she pees outside? (in addition to praise, a yummy treat?) You need to be giving her a couple of chances to relieve herself in the morning, before you go to work.

Cut her water off at 6:00pm and see if that helps, and be sure to take her out right before you go to bed. You don't mention what time she has her last potty break, but I would set my alarm for 3 or 4 hours after that last break and take her out then. Keep it the same for a week, then begin to lengthen the time, as long as she has not gone in her crate. You should be able to figure out pretty easily what her maximum holding capacity is! This stage doesn't last forever!

If it were my pup, I would not allow her to drink 2 liters of water in one sitting. This seems excessive...

Mark

Ok you do have a problem your pup needs to go outside more often. Unfortunately it sounds like this has been going on for sometime so you may have caused a bad habit. You have got to get up at night to take her out. Even if you just set a random time period to take her outside at night. Put her crate in your room what ever you have to do. I used a card board box with my pup with my arm draped off the bed over into the box. I sleep like a rock but a pup biting you at 3am will change that really fast.

Now the water.

Your vet didn’t seem surprised because it isn’t that strange. When was your pup taken from her mom or when was she weaned. The info we found on the problem is that your pup associates liquids as food. Really easy to fix just use a measuring cup and watch the pee color. At that age Greta got 2 1/2 to 3 cups a day that’s it. You probably could use the raw food scale for her water consumption 5% to 10% of her body weight. I don’t know if that would work but I am sure someone else here will know.

Just remember her bladder is not fully developed so she is going to have to go out more. I feel if you get her to realize she can’t go in her crate while your home then she will quit while you’re at work. She is just peeing in there so hopefully no bad habits have been caused.

Also make sure you exercise her before you leave her for prolonged periods remember she needs a cool down period after exercise and before the crate that is when she will need to go outside.

From talking to friends who have had larger breeds, ie, Danes, St Bernards and Mastiffs, the "jumbo" breeds tend to take a little longer to develop "bladder stamina".

I think it boils down to the dog growing so fast, that it's bladder just can't keep up.

My pup, before she was able to go all night, needed to go out around 3am. I'd set my alarm for around 2:30am and take the pup out. If she is dry when you get to her, you know you've got a good time. If she's wet, keep moving back in 30 minute increments.

I'd try coming home for lunch 30 minutes earlier than you are, and seeing if she is still dry at that point. It can be a bit of a science to determine exactly how much stamina the pup has.

As far as the water consumption goes, my pup is pretty water excessive too. To remedy this, we have a relatively 1 liter water bowl inside the house, that we only fill at mealtimes.

Outside, on the back porch, we have a 3 liter water bowl that always stays filled.

This way, she can't drink to excess inside the house. She has a set amount of water inside to drink. When we go out for potty breaks, or to "work" in the backyard, she has an unlimited water suppy.

We haven't had any issues with using this method. She is able to stay hydrated, without getting carried away.
I think when she was drinking bowl after bowl of water inside, she was drinking out of boredom, sort of the way we humans sometimes snack out of boredom.

Siaty Mantak - Yes I have read his article. I always feed her in her crate. Her crate is actually one that is designed for a full grown St. Bernard. What I did was block off crate so she just has a little portion at the front of the crate.

Lynne Barrows - Basically I wake up at 5 AM and take her out to go potty. After that I usually feed her sometime around 6 AM. After she eats, I let her out like 10-15 minutes later. I generally let her out before I leave for work, which is usually 7:45 AM. Then, I let her out during my lunch break, which is usually around 12 PM. Sometimes I let her out twice to see if she will go a second time. Then, I let her out when I get home from work at 4:45 PM. Then I give her dinner. After about 10-15 minutes after she is done I let her out again, which is usually around 6:30. I am not so much on a schedule after that. Usually, after an hour to an hour and a half I will let her out until it is bed time. I usually let her out one final time at 10-10:30PM. I am praising the heck out of her alright. Sometimes I can tell when she reacts to my praise because she will wag her tail and sometimes I receive no response from it. As far as giving a treat for going outside, that's a tough one. Sometimes she will gladly take the treat and sometimes she will lick it and drop it. She is like that with her meals too, she will eat a little then stop.

Michael Haddon - I feel really awful limiting her water intake but I feel like I might have to until she can build the ability to hold it. Is there a formula I could locate in regards to dog/puppy water intake?

One thing I will mention is that this past week I think she made it the entire night without going (which has been a first in a long time). I don't know if this was luck or maybe she just went a little and it dried up before I got up. What I observed was I took her for a really long walk and took her to an empty field and practiced the "sit" command. Everytime she sat she could chase the huge stick that she loves. She was super exausted that night too.

Can you reward a puppy for peeing outside using the prey drive?

I reward my puppy for almost everything with verbal praise and her tug or a ball.

IMO, it depends on the dog. My pup tends to be more play/prey driven, than she is food driven. She'll do things for her tug, that she wouldn't do if you were holding the tastiest treat in the world.

Mark I know I still feel bad about doing it somedays. What we tryed to do is to let her have more chances to drink but just smaller amounts.

Was the two litters in one siting or over a day. If it was in a siting you need to controll her drinking. Half a bowl to wet her mouth before she eat and half after. That was Greta got every meal time. Now if you go outside or it hot in your house then yes more just think about how much water should she need.

If you just want to have fun and teach a very valuble lesson we did this one. Greta would drink so much she couldnt eat afterwards so we would put down her food and all the water she could want then when she had drank till her stomack couldnt hold anymore we would throw part of a steak in the bowl. Watch your dogs eyes pop out. Then tell her to eat when she cant take her away from the bowl. If not she will figure out how to throw up the water and eat steak. Doesnt take long till she starts controlling her own drinking.

Greta is 7 months old and on good days now because of this problem she will eat and drink on command. Now she gets almost as much water as she wants as long as she eats first.

I'd really try hard not to let that peeing-in-the-crate habit get entrenched, which might require a log and a short regimen of getting up a couple of times during the night.

I really reward big time when teaching outdoor potty.

The effort and fatigue now will pay off big-time very soon.

I would encourage you to have her checked for a urinary tract infection. Once that is ruled out (or confirmed) you can address the issue as a behavioral or scheduling issue.

 Quote:

Common symptoms of a urinary tract infection include:
- frequent urination
- dribbling urine
- blood in the urine
- squatting frequently to urinate
- straining to urine
- strong odor to the urine
- inappropriate urination (such as in the house)
- incontinence
- an increase in thirst and drinking.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/utis/

I have giant breed dogs and at 13 weeks I really only expect 3 hours at night and 2 hours during the day between potty breaks. Got any neighbors willing to take a cute Saint Bernard puppy out for you during the day? It is summer, so maybe a responsible teen would like to make a little money. Once a behavior becomes a habit it will be much harder to change.

Shannon