well, neb and i went out to the FR trainer/field for the first time last night. most everyone was sick except for a bouv. doing SchH (multiple sports - SchH, FR, and PP (not a sport obvs.) are trained).

so we mostly just got neb used to the field and he also got to function as a distraction for the bouv. i did a bit of tugging w/him.

i already owe a bottle of wine b/c somebody pooped on the field

i have a question i forgot to ask last night. i won't be back at training for 2 weeks, so thought i'd ask here.

i'm working on drive building/tugging, and our trainer gave me some good tips i've implemented in terms of how i'm letting him win, and how quickly (i also now am letting him win 100% of the time).

he also mentioned training stuff like the sit and down, as well as focus. short sessions, obviously, especially as at 11 weeks old neb's attention span isn't exactly long. though he's pretty good at sit (he doesn't stay sitting) and come. focus is improving, but - he is 11 weeks old.

what proportion of the fun obed. training should i be doing w/neb as compared to tugging and drive building?

obviously, i know neb may not make it far in FR, being a mutt, but i'm doing this mostly for bonding, a fun activity, and to help me learn about dogs/dog handling and FR.

(gratituous pictures....none are up-to-date i'm afraid, the newest ones are about 3 weeks old: http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/mitchthecat/Neb/ )
thanks!

Sorry, I can't answer your question Jennifer, but I had to comment on Neb - what a little peanut!! He's adorable, and so TINY!! Have a blast with him.

~Natalya

thanks i realized the newest pics are closer to 4 weeks old - he's a LOT bigger now! that bone is no longer as long as he is. it was cute for awhile to watch him carry around the big orbee ball that was almost the same size as his head (i got him a puppy-sized one after that).

i'm thinking as long as i keep stuff fun, that's fine? no corrections, obviously, even for tugging and biting i've just been redirecting as much as possible.

I was worried like hell seeing Sasha in bitework at first. I kept thinking I had to control her and be hard on her. John and the other decoys basically said let her do what she does and it was almost 6 months before we started to put any OB on her at all .. even "outs" We just let her have at the tug and let her keep winning it. Once she dropped it is was over and we'd start over or put her away depending on how tired she was. Sasha was 13 months old when we started, so for a green dog (pup) you are on the right track by lessening his OB and making things more fun for him, remember it is still a pup. In my opinion that is the only way to NOT kill a pup's natural prey drive. The old saying goes "All work and no play makes Peter a dull boy" goes for dogs too and it has to be age appropriate play. So listen to what your training director has to say and don't rush things.

Really at this point you need to make your pup crazy to play with the tug/rag. Maybe you could use a tug/rag on a rope or on the end of a whip to make him chase it. The problem with what is known as a flirt pole is the fast action of it can give you a false reading of your pup's drive level because of the extra action of it will bring out prey drive in even the laziest of dogs, so I'd talk to your TD about that first.

Now the most important thing is that he becomes confident (bullish/pushy even) and then he will become comfortable in his grips. Just don't put any pressure on him or mess with him too much or lose patience with him. Your pup will show all of you how and when he is comfortable, that will give your training director a better idea of how to customize your pup's training. That's what I'd be doing to start off before going to a puppy tug or more. Keep all sessions short and fun, keep setting your pup up for success. For the moment all bite work should be fun and easy. A big fun game!

thanks geoff.

that's what i thought, that some people didn't start obed. for months.

paul actually showed me how to back off a bit with the tugging to build a more solid drive i guess - neb wins everytime, and i'm letting him win immediately right now - then we'll build on that. basically that there is no pressure on him.

neb is so small i've actually been using a fat tail cat toy (on a stick) with him....it's been torn in half (teagan) but he still likes it. as he's gotten bigger, i've also started on a rope tug, and we are using that more, especially since he is bigger and the stick cat toy is a little worse for wear. we also use a sock sometimes.

do you think it's okay to try to teach him stuff like sit as long as it's all positive, and i'm not pushing anything? if i make it as much of a game as tugging is?

Keep the OB positive. I'd just lure him with food, and shape him into the positions and use markers at this stage with probably a clicker. I'd keep both games totally separate the tugging and OB. Plus I wouldn't put a lot of movement into the cat toy as the movement could make him hectic then you'd end with a dog that will take a lot to stimulate him to bite a prey item, and you don't want that either. Slow movements with a chamois, sock or the cat toy and build it from there. Remember .. Fun and easy. And for goodness sake don't overdo anything short short sessions 4-5 minutes of anything even less at this point.

great, thanks.

i'm definitely going to step back a bit and build him up w/a better foundation. good point about the movement.

he can tug for a lot longer than 4-5 minutes though....is that a problem? or did you mean the OB? i generally keep tugging w/him to save my clothes and skin

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

he can tug for a lot longer than 4-5 minutes though....is that a problem? or did you mean the OB? i generally keep tugging w/him to save my clothes and skin

What you want him to do is be crazy for the tug. That means leaving him wanting more. Not to keep feeding it to him.

When in doubt leave him in the crate that's the simple solution to keep him off your clothes and skin.

IMO he should only be out of the crate for potty, feeding and play/training, anything else to me is too much, if he is aggravating you back to the crate he goes.

okay....i've been feeling like it's bad to keep a young puppy in the crate overly much. i was actually worried that it would mean he'd lose drive.

but i can institute that and then as he gets older extend stuff. i'll do really regular, short, play sessions, and a couple of fun OB sessions/day.

we actually leave tomorrow night for temagami - doing a 6 day canoe trip w/neb - so that will be an interesting experience, but the friend i'm going w/has some physical issues so the days aren't too bad, i'll be able to work w/neb lots and do lots of little play sessions. he does have a soft collasible crate i got for camping since he's not perfect w/potty training yet (doing great though!) and i'm not having anything happen in my tent.

one other thought....i guess i should also keep the tugging sessions shorter b/c if we go for awhile and he gets worked up, he'll start to growl - i haven't worried about it, i mean, he's 11 weeks old (he's been doing this for about 8 weeks), but i guess i can take it is an obvious sign that he's had enough.

otherwise, i've noticed over the past couple of days that he's starting to get a bit more independent in his exploration, AND that i think he might be going through a minor - maybe not fear stage, but a hesistancy stage. we go on tiny little walks (explorations) and i've noticed things that he didn't used to blink at he'll have a momentary hesitation towards, but he gets over it pretty well right away.