Hi,

I am dealing with an itching problem with my 10 yr old GSD that's making me nuts (I can hear my spousal unit saying, "Oh, that's what's doing it?"). She's waking me up at night with her itching. She'll stop immeidately when I tell her to, but she can't help herself when it starts to itch again. She has no flea issues, and I can't find anything on her skin (thankfully, she's not breaking the skin or causing any hot spots).

She has been swimming since she was 16 weeks old, in fresh water lakes as well as the ocean. She'll dive off docks, off rocks, swim from shore, whatever, as long as she can fetch out of the water or swim with me. She loves to swim, and I love this exercise for her. She has developed some arthritis in her spine as well as spondylosis, and with hot, humid summer weather here in central VA, keeping her conditioned is a challenge. We get up and out very early to hike and exercise/play, but still, I feel that swimming is the best thing for her, and her sports med vet agrees.

She has seasonal inhalant allergies, which make spring and fall difficult, itching wise. I give her 2 T/day of local organic, raw honey for this issue, seasonally, and while it doesn't totally eliminate the problem, it helps a great deal (got this idea from the Whole Dog Journal and have tested it with using less local honey, and it's amazing the difference it makes). I don't keep her on it year round as they recommend, in part, because of the "sugar feeding cancer" issues.

She's been fed 100% raw for over 6 years. She gets Grizzly salmon oil, Vit E, MSM, a vit/mineral supplement, Glucosamine/Chondriotin, and an immune-boosting Vit C product that's designed for itching issues. I've recently started her on a new-to-me supplement called Duralactin, which is an anti-inflammatory made from milk proteins. Some GSD people swear by it, so I'm giving it a try.

Regardless of the water she swims in, I rinse her thoroughly as soon afterward as is possible.

Where I live in VA, the only local swimming option that I am able to use is a man-made lake. I hate man-made lakes, but it's my only real option at this time. I don't really like swimming her or myself in chlorinated pools, which we do get to do on occasion, so I believe the current culprit is the man-made lake we use.

I try to swim her off the boat dock at this little lake (only electric motors, or canoes/kayaks/rowboats are allowed), which means we can then exit the water on the cement boat ramp. This keeps both of us off the muddy, mucky, yuck that you encounter from swimming off the shore of this lake, not to mention all the goose crap on the grass. A few times lately, I did not manage to get the dock (someone else beat me to it), so we did swim from shore. I don't know if this is an issue or not with her itching.

I don't know what's going on, but this summer, the itching she's experiencing is getting very intense. I believe it is related to this man-made lake and this particular summer. She has never had this problem from swimming in any of the Great Lakes, or even the ocean, as long as she's rinsed well enough afterwards. Nor has the itching been quite this bad from swimming in this particular lake in other summers.

I guess it's possible that there is something unusual about the pollens this summer (we had a terrible spring this year, with pollen, but I don't know enough about it to know if that's a current issue).

I don't want to stop swimming her, since she loves it so much, I love it so much, and it's so good for her.

I'm wondering if this could be a dry skin issue? If perhaps her skin's natural oils are too depleted from the swimming and rinsing? (We only go two to three times a week.) However, this doesn't make a lot of sense, as it's so much worse this summer than it ever has been before from swimming (when we stay near Lake Huron in some summers, she swims every single day for a couple of months and never has this kind of itching problem).

I am wondering if there is something in the water this year that could be causing this? If so, should I wash her after each swim, rather than just rinse her off? Apparently, the rinsing isn't doing a good enough job. (I only use natural products in our home, and for our animals, so no SLS or anything like that in her shampoos.) But, I don't want to overuse any soap, no matter how natural the product.

I am going to try a new shampoo on her today, that has a lot of tea tree oil and aloe in it, to see if this makes any difference. We won't be going to the lake over the weekend (I avoid it when there are more dogs and people there on the weekends).

I am also wondering if I should perhaps try the local honey thing again to see if it may be somehow pollen related? I really don't want to overuse the honey, but if it will help her, I guess I would be willing to use it three seasons out of the year, rather than two. (And, I guess I don't get how an inhalant allergy could be triggered by swimming, or lake water?)

I know itching issues come up often on this forum...I am certain this isn't food-related. It sure seems to be environmentally related, and I believe the culprit is this stupid lake.

leih merigian a.k.a. frustrated in VA

Hi Leah,
I see that you posted this back in July. Today is August 4th, so
not sure if you will see this or not.
I am originally from Minnesota, and up there we have many lakes.
There can be a higher incidence of "chiggers" which are in the duck and geese poop, and when you swim in areas that are in the shallows or shore where the ducks and geese have been, your dog or you might be getting exposed to these tiny pests.
I had it once on my own skin.
The nurse said that they are present in the small droplets of water left on your skin. If you don't towel off, and leave the water on your skin, when the water evaporates, the chiggers go into your skin.
It was horribly itchy and it took several weeks for the darn things to die off.
The rash migrated from my torso, down to my legs.
I guess they lay eggs in your skin, but eventually die off.
I have no knowledge of it happening in dogs, but it could be possible.
Does your dog have any red bumps or rash on his/her skin?
I am researching this right now in dogs.
I just thought it was worth mentioning.

Update: I happened to have a vet appt. for my GSD today and I did ask about Chiggers and if they are a problem in dogs. She said that they are not likely to get inside the dogs skin like they do in humans.
I don't really understand why, but this is what she said.
I am still researching this, but again, thought it was just worth mentioning.

Let me see if I've got this right. You've had the dog about 10 yrs, raw fed for 6 yrs. She has seasonal allergies - for how long? Has she ever had itching this bad at any previous time(s)? And the itching has been controlled, more or less, over the years, but is particularly bad this summer? Where is she scratching - tail, rump, stomach, arm pits, ears. . . other? Any foot chewing? Are there areas where her skin is inflamed, dry, scaly?
You might check with weather.com or a similar site to try and see what the pollen count has been in your area lately. They usually have numbers that go back 30 days or more.

I have other suggestions, but the first thing I'd definitely do is stop the swimming for a while and see what happens. I don't think her conditioning will suffer that much in a week or so vs. finding out if being out of the water stops the problem. If it's the water, I'd expect to see some results in a few days.

And, like I always tell people, start keeping a detailed log of what activities you're doing, the weather/pollen counts, any changes you make in feeding, supplements, bath schedule/products, etc., etc. It's very easy to think that factor "A" is causing a problem, but after you've been making notes for a while, you may find a pattern or evidence of a totally different activity or aspect you'd previously dismissed. This is especially true since some changes - meds, bathing, etc - might produce immediate results, while others - supplements, diet change, etc. - may not produce results for a week or two or more. You need to be able to look back at a history of what's going on to get a more complete picture.

Mike

Hi Joyce,That's interesting info about the chiggers.  I hope your vet was right about dogs not being much bothered by them tho<g>thanks,leih

Hi Mike,

Thanks a lot for replying. I had pretty much given up on this thread<g>.

Yes, I've had her 10 years and she's been raw fed for about 6-7 of those ten. She's had seasonal allergies all her life, which I'm now starting to believe may be vaccination related. As there is no way to unring that bell (stopped the yearly vacs when she was about 4), it's hard to know.

I've come to the conclusion since my original post that this is her seasonal, inhalant allergies going on. While our grass and tree pollens are very low right now, the mold count has been very high. I have no idea where mold comes from in the air<g>, but it sure seems to be giving her problems.

What I decided to try was adding the local raw organic honey back into her diet, and that made a nearly immeidate difference. Still itching, but not quite as bad, not quite as often.

As far as where she itches, her hip area, or I guess that would be flanks, some at the base of her tail, her tummy, her feet. She'd started creating raw areas in that area on the bottom side of her feet, but above the pads (kind of a reverse wrist area on the underside?). I have this fantastic first aid stuff I found called EMT spray, made by Trophy, and put some of that on her wrist area, which she then left alone and is recovering nicely. She's not breaking her skin otherwise, isn't scaly/flaky, tho she gets a bit pink, I'd guess, from the irritation of scratching and/or licking.

We just spent over a week away from the lake, and her itching didn't change much. So, I guess it's not lake related, but rather, the same old inhalant allergies.

I think when I took her to Michigan for several summers, the pollen/mold counts must be different up there or something, as her itching wasn't very bad up there in the summer. But, she's had this pretty much all her life, spring thru fall.

If I were to check, I think perhaps I'd find that the mold counts had increased about the same time as we started using the local lake this summer. So, I may have been blaming the lake for what's going on with the air<g>. Not swimming for about ten days didn't make any difference, which seems to support that idea.

The log is a good idea.

Thanks again for replying.

leih merigian

Leih,

Check your PMs.

Mike

Hey guys - interesting topic. Joyce might still be on the correct source but in using the word chiggers she threw her vet off track.

Chiggers are the larval form of a family of mites. (Thes mites are arachnids like spiders, ticks, scorpions..) They cause intense dermatitis in humans but not usually dogs - I think the thick fur coat is a deterrent.

The beasties that cause traditional swimmers itch (cercarial dermatitis) are a free swimming stage of a water born trematode parasite. They get into birds through their skin, produce eggs which get passed into water, hatch, infect a type of snail, hatch again and then search for a bird to reinfect... When they 'accidentally' infect a human, dog or other incorrect host they enter the skin and cause intense irritation and allergic reaction. Itch-o-rama and there are cases of dogs being diagnosed with this in the parasitology journals.

Common remedies include epsom salts, baking soda or anti-collodial oatmeal products.

Not sure this is the cause - but - avoiding that particular water hole might be advised. Do you wade with your dog? Did you get the dreaded red bumps?

Best of luck getting rid of the itchies!

Hi Krista,


Well now, that's very interesting, if gross<g>.

I not only wade, but swim in this lake, with my dog. I haven't had any unusual itching problems or red bumps.

What kind of test do they have for this particular ailment?

I actually think my dog's itching is more inhalant allergy related than lake related.

How do you use the Epsom salts or baking soda for this for dogs? Mix it in some water and rinse with it? Would you then leave it on as is, or rinse again with clear water?

thanks,
leih

Hi Leih,

Yeah - parasites are pretty darn cool!

I don't know of any test you could use on the dog as the cercaria die within a couple of hours in the dermal area of the inappropriate host. The extended itching is the immune response.

I guess you could take a sample of the water and have a parasitologist look through it under a scope to see if they could find any - but if you have waterfowl and snails in a freshwater or estuarine system it is pretty common...

It seems people get infected at slightly different rates - and this is purely observational on my part - but people with hairy legs/arms or in wetsuits seem to get infected more readily. I'm not sure, but, this might have to do with the duration the water stays in contact with the skin (like the nurse mentioned in Joyce's post). A dog's coast would certainly trap the water close to his skin longer than you stayed wet once you got out. If you are a very hairy person that drip dried and still didn't get any red bumps - my theory would crumble!

Note *I have not tried this remedy* but I would try either filling a bath 1/3rd full with water/epsom salts - standing the dog in the bath and rinse with the salty water using a pitcher for a few minutes and then rinse clean OR use one of those marketed oatmeal soaps like Aveeno. The second method seems less drying...

I hope this helps as it would be easier to treat than the dreaded seasonal allergies!