Best way to fix this problem ?
#205307 - 08/11/2008 05:08 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-11-2008
Posts: 132
Loc:
Offline |
|
My 20months old JRT has a serious disorder when in presence of other animals. Whenever he sees one (from cat, to cow) he does everything in his power to go meet it.
When contained (be it by a window, fence, or because he's on-leash) he will jump and bark recklessly. It is the only scenario in which he can show aggressivity toward anyone who tries to control him. He is not dominant, but when he reaches that state, the only thing he minds is his "target".
I got him when he was 2months. It was in febuary, and winters are really cold here, but I did my best to socialize him to as many animals and people as possible (cats, dogs, horses, cows). He REALLY wants to play with every cat or dog he meets. If I let him loose, he'll try to trigger a chase by poking at it then taking off. Every times I "introduce" him to a new dog, he goes straight for the genitals. If the dog is dominant, he won't stay there for long before being shooed. If the dog isnt dominant, he will put his paw on the dog's back (dominance?) then immediately go in "play stance" and poke the dog for a chase. However horses and cows are another story. He always was afraid of them. He'll bark at them with his hair straight up on his back.
Sometimes acts like he has OCD. When my neighbor's dog is outside, he'll run at the fence, let a few barks go, then come back on the balcony (from where he can see the dog), bark, run to the fence, bark, come back to the balcony, over and over.
I have worked hard lately to instate pack structure and deepen our bond and I think I've been pretty successful so far. Ground working, positive training, etc. He's an awesome dog when there are no distractions. Our relationship has greatly increased over the past few weeks, but now I have to confront the problem directly.
This issue is not only embarrassing, it's becoming life threatening. To burn his excess energy, I've been biking with him. He really enjoys the rides and he can run for quite a while (he does have alot of gas to burn). However, on one of those rides, he ran straight in front of the bike trying to leap at a dog across the street. I couldn't brake fast enough, and hit him. It scared the hell off of me, but he got away with a couple scratches.
Here are the things I've done so far to alleviate the problem:
Dogs.
I've taken him to dog parks, but stayed outside. He remains relatively tense and alert, but I can control him.
Cats.
This encounter was way more problematic. I know someone who has a very calm cat (which is actually trained to sit-stay). The cat was sitting there, aloof, as I walked around it with my dog.
My dog was tense. He was whining and barking. When he stopped barking I got closer. Then he tried to jump at the cat (which didn't even blink). With a prong collar, I had to give several high level corrections to settle him down. Since he was leaping forward and only weights 20pounds, I had to pop with the leash angled backward, which made him flip... and greatly reduced the effectiveness of the correction. The last correction was done by pulling him back while saying "no", then pulling straight upward since he didn't stop. That one finally got him out of his drive.
Then I gave him a "down" command and he layed down facing AWAY from the cat. I think I managed to get him into avoidance. After he stayed down 5-10 seconds I praised him and stopped the exercise there.
While I feel it would be much more easier to settle his drive down when he's at the "tense & whiny" stage (and probably require a lower level correction), I'm unsure on how to time the correction, and I don't want to make a mistake. I mean... I can't see how I could correct him only for displaying an hyper attitude. In my mind it will only confuse him and make him even more nervous.
I'm sometimes asked "but why the hell are you purposedly putting him in situations where you know he's not comfortable?". I'm doing it because this is a behavior I cannot avoid. There will always be animals outside, and people walking down the street. And he will always see them, and overreact to them, unless I fix this problem for good. I don't want to see the look on the face of a mom and her 6years old girl walking their poodle as I have to give a high level correction to my dog because he's leaping like a tazmanian devil toward them. Even though it's not with an aggressive intent, this behavior cannot be tolerated, as it is a very important threat to his security.
Am I right to use prong corrections for this ? Would a dominant collar be more effective at settling him down (and less spectacular)? I've seen improvements with the prong so far, but it's far from being done.
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: Francis Daigle ]
#205310 - 08/11/2008 06:10 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 06-06-2008
Posts: 5062
Loc: WA, USA
Offline |
|
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: Francis Daigle ]
#205315 - 08/11/2008 07:51 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-30-2007
Posts: 3283
Loc:
Offline |
|
Francis,
It's been a very short time since you quit this so called trainer and started on a more sensible path. Give the dog some time to learn.....You are IT. While it may be impossible to avoid all sight of distractions, stay as far away from them as much as you can. Before ya'll head out for exercise, work him diligently in centering first, then go out.
It's going to take some time to over come what, close to two years worth of bad/misdirected training. Patience is called for.
If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#205319 - 08/11/2008 08:13 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-15-2008
Posts: 109
Loc: USA
Offline |
|
The goal is not to make him ignore animals. It's impossible. The only thing you can do is make him respect you enough, and respect the consequence for misbehavior enough, that he doesn't react to the animals he sees.
The time to correct the dog, is when he first starts eyeballing the cat, not after he has already lunged/barked/reacted to the cat. Preemptive strike, so to speak.
Good Advice from Alyssa.
You are the force your dog must recon with. Make the issue about obedience, and not about the other dog. He can't bark his head off and lunge if hes on a sit-stay. If he breaks it, correct him. Get a properly fitted prong collar, up high and not on backwards- when you hold it facing the dog, the two prongs should be in your left hand. Should get a trainer to help you do this, working up to bigger distractions. Also, don't let him near the dog park, it won't help, not every dog is a dog park type. Going straight to smell the genitals can be taken as offensive by other dogs. Sounds like you have the right idea with giving him lots of exercise, and give him an outlet for his prey drive.
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: Jennifer N. Hack ]
#205321 - 08/11/2008 08:47 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-30-2007
Posts: 3283
Loc:
Offline |
|
I Respectfully disagree with this off the cuff forced discipline routine being touted for this dog and owner.
Reveiwing the his past thread from not more than perhaps a week and a half ago will explain why.
If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: randy allen ]
#205322 - 08/11/2008 08:51 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 06-06-2008
Posts: 5062
Loc: WA, USA
Offline |
|
I read the other posts earlier today, as well as when they were first made.
I understand where you are coming from, this dog probably does need a break from all of this. The poor dog is getting beat up from all directions, endlessly.
As I posted above, I don't understand why there is such an emphasis on making this dog "like" being around other dogs. Just keep him away for awhile. I also advocated (granted, my quotations sucked and made the post a bear to read), putting the dog into a crate when he was going berzerk and letting him, rather than keep correcting the dog.
I think the poor dog has had a combination of too much correction and control, coupled with ineffective corrections.
As I posted above, it's time to find another trainer, who isn't crap, and give the dog some time to recover.
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#205323 - 08/11/2008 09:03 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-30-2007
Posts: 3283
Loc:
Offline |
|
Yeah yeah Alyssa,
It must be getting late, I'm not reading or filling in the lines as well as my normal poor job, which of course makes it all that much worse! LOL
I just checked my dates too....Just about a month ago he started on his new road. To be exact, the first posted question was 7/11.
If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: randy allen ]
#205362 - 08/12/2008 09:24 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-03-2003
Posts: 704
Loc:
Offline |
|
Hi Francis, rather than giving the dog a physical correction why not try this....fill your pockets with cooked chicken, when you approach other dogs, cats, squirrels etc., whatever is causing the problem try saying his name and the instant he looks at you, give a verbal cue(yes, good boy, whatever you prefer) wait 1-2 seconds and give a food reward. It is important that there is a space of time between the word cue and food reward.
Since he does pull on the leash I would use a prong collar, just don't use it for corrections...he will self-correct if he gets to over the top, if this happens just ignore it and move on....
The point is to keep him focused on you and stop it before it starts, some tidbits of chicken that has been seasoned with garlic should do the trick.
Hope this helps...
Debbie
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: randy allen ]
#205365 - 08/12/2008 09:36 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 05-10-2006
Posts: 2273
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Offline |
|
I have a dog that behaves very similar to your JRT, only he is 65 lbs. I thought he was dog and animal aggressive, but in reality he's just extremely reactive, (not to mention strong enough to pull me down).
The advice I got here (maybe it is different for you, I don't know your history) was that first of all it will take a very long time of consistent work to train him out of this. There is no overnight cure.
Second of all you are doing too much too soon. You have to start training your dog to pay attention to you while you are still FAR AWAY from the distraction (dog, cat). What you are doing wrong is going right up close so the dog gets amped up then correcting the hell out of him (which was also MY mistake). All this does is create chaos and confuse the dog.
The key is do not go that close.
Get your cat out and bring your dog so that he can see that there is a cat over there, but it is far away. At this point your dog will perk up his ears, maybe stiffen his body and look interested. EXACTLY when his ears go up - that is your cue to give a light leash pop (to get his attention) and then start an obedience exercise routine complete with treats or a game of ball or tug (on leash of course). Every time he looks over at the cat, light leash pop to get his attention back then continue distracting him.
DO NOT wait until the dog is barking before you correct, it is too late - he will be too focused on his "job".
Do this for only a few minutes every day, or as often as you can. Keep the sessions short and upbeat. The dog will gain confidence.
I have been working with my dog for about 6 months and I do see an improvement. I can now take him out in the yard while my neighbor's little barky dogs are out and keep his attention. He still does occasionally "slip" or focus on them too much with his attention, so we are still working on it, but there is definitely a change.
|
Top
|
Re: Best way to fix this problem ?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#205382 - 08/12/2008 11:07 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-11-2008
Posts: 132
Loc:
Offline |
|
Can I ask why you feel the need to allow your dog to interact with other dogs?
I was mentionning this to let you guys know whas has been done so far to socialize him to dogs, and how his reaction to them when a close-up is made, somehow illustrating his dominance level if it could help with getting advices.
Sometimes acts like he has OCD. When my neighbor's dog is outside, he'll run at the fence, let a few barks go, then come back on the balcony (from where he can see the dog), bark, run to the fence, bark, come back to the balcony, over and over.
Why do you let that continue? Why not stop it by putting the dog into his crate until he mellows the heck out?
By allowing the behavior to continue, you are reinforcing it.
I do not let it continue, I should have mentionned it. Again, wanted to illustrate his hyper temperament.
Here are the things I've done so far to alleviate the problem:
Dogs.
I've taken him to dog parks, but stayed outside. He remains relatively tense and alert, but I can control him.
How is that supposed to fix the problem?
The goal is not to make him ignore animals. It's impossible. The only thing you can do is make him respect you enough, and respect the consequence for misbehavior enough, that he doesn't react to the animals he sees.
I totally agree with that statement. My method might have been goofy... but it's what I had in mind when I went there to work with him.
WHY???? Are you trying to teach him to "make nice with the kitty", or are you trying to teach him to respect you enough to keep his attention on you and not the cat?
By closer I meant about 3 feet. My goal was to make him not mind the cat, but me. I was talking to him the whole time to get his attention. The cat is incredibly aloof, and I wanted my dog to see that there's no big deal with kitties. After my last correction I could put him in a down-stay about 4feet from the cat, he went into avoidance (looking away from it). I thought this was a great improvement... but after reading some posts above I'm getting confused.
The time to correct the dog, is when he first starts eyeballing the cat, not after he has already lunged/barked/reacted to the cat. Preemptive strike, so to speak.
I put him in a sit-stay and he complies, but still remains hyper and keeps whining his nervousness. This is where I'm lost. He does mind my command... so it would be a bad idea to correct him. But I want to get him out of drive, or focus it back on me. He can figure he can't look at the animal, so he won't. But his level of excitement/nervousness remains sky-high. Should I just ignore the excitement as long as he minds my commands ?
If you aren't willing to follow through with proper training, I would consider a new home for the little guy.
Where do you live? This problem is honestly a very easy fix. You just need someone to show you how and when to correct the dog.
I wouldn't be posting here if I wasn't willing to do everything I can for this fella. I live in Quebec, Canada. There are no trainers in my area who use methods discussed here. It's either pure-positive training, or old choke-n-crank methods. Which is why I'm asking you guys for help, even though it's hard to explain stuff over the internet. This place is where I get the best advices.
|
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.