We are having serious recall problems.

This is no suprise to me at all, in fact it is something I was full expecting and preparing for since the moment we decided to get another husky.

But I am still frustrated and have had one scary incidence that was enough to give me nightmares, especially after we lost our other husky to a tragic accident.

We had some utility workers in the backyard earlier in the day and the gate didn't get latched all the way and even though I was in the yard with him he was too fast and got out, I then had to spend 20 minutes trying to catch him.

So everyday we work on "come" in some manner frequently (randomly throughout the day) in the house, in the backyard, out front on a 10 foot lead, and we have started at the fenced in park on a 30 foot lead.

As long as he has a lead on or is in the house he comes very reliably and always get a really good treat. But off lead in the backyard he will blow me off.

As in take a step towards me, yap at me and run the other direction.

Right now he is wearing a drag lead all the time in yard as well because I'm not willing to let him think he can get away with no coming.

When he does not immediately come on lead he gets corrected with the prong and I reel him in and we go inside.

Obviously the one time he was off lead out of the yard it was a total nightmare. He would let me get within about 5 feet then bark and run off another half a block or so, wait for me to catch up then take off again.

I know this turned it into a game but I didn't have a choice because I needed to catch him as well as keep him from getting hit. When I did finally catch him I put his leash on and simply walked him home without saying a word or acknowledging him.

I know He knows what Come means, and he also knows when he does and doesn't have a lead or line on. At this point I am considering an E-collar to help solve this but Im not sure if that is the best approach either.

When a dog becomes equipment smart you are almost forced to go with the ecollar. Being as you work so much on the recall and he still is ready to blow you off shows that you either aren't doing something right, or you have to up the ante. The ecollar is just another peice of equipment as well. Its only effective when he's wearing it. Should he be without it you can probably expect him to blow you off again once he figures it out.

I know there is a way to introduce the ecollar so the dog doesn't realize, or make the connection to the collar and the correction. That said...some dogs are just smarter than your average bear and will figure it out eventually.

Howard

I want to get his come down so that we can do some agility which I know he would excell at...he jumps baby gates from flat footed without even touching the top, and also because I know all too well this command is deadly serious.

He definately knows when he does and doesn't have the prong collar on and is a much much better listener when wearing it.

He is a willful and very independent dog who also loves to work and learn.
But that husky urge to run is such a high in-born drive I think it short circuits his brain!!

He is a super fast learner and picks up other behaviors with few repetitions and under heavy distraction really easily. I'm guessing he is one of those smarter than your average bear type dogs.

He is to the point that we can be in a crowded area with other dogs around and I can still reliably get sit, down, touch, paw, and shooey! (leave it)

The thing I like about using an E-collar is if he does have to wear it most or all of the time it wont be as irritating to his neck and tear up his neck hair all the time. I know a few of my friends who have labs who trained with the E-collar get to the point where they can keep a collar on with a couple of batteries duck-taped to it and that does the trick.

 Quote: jennifer lee

... But off lead in the backyard he will blow me off.... As in take a step towards me, yap at me and run the other direction. ... Obviously the one time he was off lead out of the yard it was a total nightmare. He would let me get within about 5 feet then bark and run off another half a block or so, wait for me to catch up then take off again. .... I know this turned it into a game but I didn't have a choice because I needed to catch him as well as keep him from getting hit. When I did finally catch him I put his leash on and simply walked him home without saying a word or acknowledging him.

http://leerburg.com/302.htm

You have allowed it to become a game by calling the dog when you didn't know that he would come and had no way to ensure it (long line).

Now I would start over, and Rule Number One is: The dog is never off the long line or leash until you have a reliable recall.

I see this much more as a game the handler has encouraged than the dog being line-savvy. The dog is game-savvy. He knows that the catch-me game is for when he has no line on, and that the handler will indeed play.

I generally start indoors, but when I have a badly-trained or catch-me trained dog, I start with the long cotton line.

The dog gets a party (praise and rewards and a rub or whatever this dog's currency is) when he comes, and when he does not comply, he is reeled in, no comment. Needless to say, the party wins out over the reeling-in no-party scenario.

I work on it all the time by calling with my recall voice and command indoors, too, in the same room as the dog, for every single good thing that happens. Dinner? Recall. Walk? Recall. Game? Recall.

My own preference is not to introduce distractions until I have a 100% compliance rate with no distractions. That is, I am never having to reel him in. And I introduce distractions pretty slowly and gradually. Also, the bigger the distraction that the dog just performed under, the more excellent the reward.

Of course, as with all marker work, I phase out the tangible reward to, say 80%, and then 50%, and so on, until I am rewarding randomly, but I still make most recalls end in a pat or praise. Why not?

And when the dog who has once learned to play "catch me" is first off the long line, it's in an enclosed area, for added insurance. You need to know that he is reliable before you ever test it otherwise.

JMO. BTW, the starting over WILL work. My dogs are pre-owned, and they never come to me with a recall. In fact, they all came with a well-taught "catch me" game. So have other peoples' dogs.

It's true that some breeds and some individuals take more work.

It's a command that takes practice, but it's fun.

Then you will make a post like this: http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=14&Number=213512&Searchpage=1&Main=21149&Words=boast&topic=0&Search=true#Post213512

Is there a way to correct this without an e collar? Just curious about other methods. Just saw Connie's post. That answered my question.

LOL I feel your pain. I have a foster who we believe is 1/2 husky. He listens when in the yard, even off leash. But the guy is a Houdini and when he gets out there is no catching him. He just does his own thing and pretends you are not trying to catch him.

One time it was dark out and I was sure I'd lost him. Suddenly I saw him sitting bolt upright in a parking lot of an apartment building a few doors down, illuminated by a street light. As I approached, he didn't run away or even get up. Turns out his 15 foot drag leash had gotten stuck under one of those curbs they put in front of parking spots. He was sitting there quietly, waiting patiently for me to come and "rescue" him.

Gaa!! What a heart attack.

 Quote: angela burrell

Suddenly I saw him sitting bolt upright in a parking lot of an apartment building a few doors down, illuminated by a street light. As I approached, he didn't run away or even get up. Turns out his 15 foot drag leash had gotten stuck under one of those curbs they put in front of parking spots. He was sitting there quietly, waiting patiently for me to come and "rescue" him.

Gaa!! What a heart attack.

Something like this happened to me recently. I called the dog, though, from where I could see him standing quietly, and I was pretty surprised when he just stood there. Turned out he was stuck, too. Fortunately, I was so puzzled that I walk over to investigate instead of running over screaming "WTF? I called you!" (which was definitely a fleeting thought).

I take a slightly different and frankly, harsher approach.

Recall is the one command where I loose all patience and belief in positive training.

I never call my dog unless I'm pretty sure she'll come.

I never put my dog in a situation where NOT coming is an option. I check gates before the dog is let out. I don't know what type of gate latch you have, but paint it with florescent paint or affix a flag, something that is visable from a long ways away to tell you that the gate is open or closed.

I reward my dog richly every time she comes to me, even if I didn't call her. If we're going outside, for a walk or pretty much anywhere, I've always got treats and toys. I keep treats by the front and back doors to make it easy to grap a handful on the way out.

When my dog starts towards me (even though her recall is super reliable) I STILL make it fun, by running backwards, patting my thighs and generally embarassing myself for the dog's benefit.

And on the few occassions when my dog decides to do her own thing and not come (and this has only happened literally 2 or 3 times)...
First, limit yourself to only calling the dog once. They don't get a second chance. (And they won't if they run headlong in front of a car.) Tell the dog "NO!" or "Fooey"!

Second, remember exactly where you were standing when you called the dog.

Walk slowly and calmly towards the dog. Don't look directly at the dog. If the dog decides to move or run away, just slowly follow it. Even if the dog decides to come trotting up to you at this point, it's too late. You aren't in the spot you called the dog from, the dog has already made the mistake, and in this case, this is an automatic correction.

Grab the dog, and correct the snot out of it, all the way back to where you originally called the dog from.
This is one of only two things that will cause me to correct a dog hard enough to make it yelp and scream.
I correct the crap out of the dog, and the whole time I am scolding, "NO! I said COME! You better COME! Shame on you!"
Until we get back to the starting point.

The second you are back at the starting point with the dog (who more than likely will be quite upset and confused) pause for a moment to let the whole event sink in.
Then stroke the dog gently, tell the dog, "Good COME. Good dog."
Let the dog know that you're done being angry, its over and you still love the dog.

Then go put the dog in it's crate.



OR, you can use an ECollar. Your call.

Edited by (10/29/2008 04:16 PM)
Edit reason: fixed: "the gates is open"

Thanks for all the advice so far, this is an issue I have a hard time being objective and calm about.
I will likely never be comfortable with him loose in an unfenced area, but I do want to have a more foolproof recall so that we can enjoy more things togetherin controlled enviroments, such as agility and also to keep him safe.
Connie,
In your opinion should I change the command to something else in order to remove the game option even though he is so close to totally reliable with a line on?

And also once we reproof him with distractions while on a line,

how do I correct him for not coming when off line without it turning into "neener neener you can't catch me" time?

While he was loose I only called him once, after that I just calmy trotted along behind him and tried to corral him into a corner or the end of someones driveway. I know all too well that screaming and yelling and calling and whistling do no good at all and only serve to up the ante where the game is concerned.

My instinct when I have had to catch him the couple of times in the backyard, and the one big time down the street was to correct the snot out of him and keep at it all the way back home.

But I wasn't sure if correcting once I caught him would be too much like correcting once he came.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Something like this happened to me recently. I called the dog, though, from where I could see him standing quietly, and I was pretty surprised when he just stood there. Turned out he was stuck, too. Fortunately, I was so puzzled that I walk over to investigate instead of running over screaming "WTF? I called you!" (which was definitely a fleeting thought).

LOL... this happened to me with a different foster. This dog has taught himself how to answer questions. "Woof" means yes and silence means no. Anyway, he was sniffing around in some bushes and his 20 foot leash got looped around several times. I called him to get out of the bushes and he did not. I started on my WTF spiel as I was going toward the bush, then I asked, "are you stuck?" and he answered, "woof!" (translated, yes you dumb human. I am a good boy and would listen if I could!)