As I mentioned in my post in the training with prong collars forum, I have two 14-month-old Tibetan mastiffs. That puts them in the late stages of puppyhood, as these are very slow-maturing dogs.

I have had one of them since she was 10 weeks, and she's had the usual sorts of issues of puppyhood, but she's been a great addition to our family. I kept in close contact with the breeder as she matured, dealing with things like panosteitis, and the breeder and her vet (also a TM owner) have been incredibly helpful on any number of fronts.

Because we became close, I guess I got on the "good-guy" list. During a visit last summer, we were introduced to a male TM almost exactly the same age as our girl, who had been sent from another breeder for evaluation as a potential stud dog. He was, of course, a cute little muppet at the age of five months, and my daughters jokingly asked the breeder if we could have him to take home. (I said no.)

Fast forward three months, and imagine my surprise when I got an e-mail from the breeder asking if we wanted the boy. Both breeders decided that, although he will, in all likelihood, be perfectly breedable and showable, they already had all the access to his particular bloodline that they needed, so the question was would I take him, no charge, no strings attached, they would take him back if he didn't work out, I could neuter or breed at my option, but it would be a nice gesture to send a puppy to his breeder if we decide to breed our girl to him.

I asked how he was with a crate -- the breeder said she didn't know, but would put him in one and see what the reaction was, and it turned out to be fine.

After thinking about it for a week, we decided that we would give this a shot. Here's where things got complicated -- when we got him he was already 8 months old and 80 pounds, and the boy had always been an outdoor dog in a kennel with access to a large meadow to run in. Turning him into a suburban house dog was clearly going to be an interesting challenge.

Don't get me wrong here, it was the right decision to take him. He is a good dog, and he is staying with us.

We expected some housebreaking problems, but there were none. It took less than two days for him to figure the whole thing out. The crate, however, turned out to be a big, big problem -- he seems to be somewhat claustrophobic, and when disturbed, he drools. He will go into the crate, and stay there quietly, but after a night in the crate, his entire body will be soaked in drool; we would have to towel him off every time he was crated for any significant length of time, and mop up the excess in the bottom of the crate. I was beginning to have concerns that he was getting dehydrated. We were going through 4 or five large, thick beach towels a day. Eventually, we decided to let him sleep outside the crate, and that actually has turned out okay -- unlike the female, he is not inclined to chew anything he is not supposed to. However, I still want to be able to crate him when it is really necessary. But there are few things more repulsive than a large shaggy drool-drenched dog, especially if we haven't been able to bathe the boy in a day or two. He can get seriously rank in a real hurry.

We have a similar issue with riding in the car. He jumps in, lies down, and turns on the faucet. We have tried Rescue Remedy, a couple of different homeopathic remedies, carsickness remedies, tried to accustom him to both the car and the crate. Nothing stops the drooling in those situations, but it is not a significant issue anywhere else. We don't crate him when we leave the house, and in nearly 6 months we have had no problems on account of that -- no drooling, no chewing, no elimination problems that weren't our fault (but very few of those).

Second issue, nail trimming -- a house dog needs it, but the boy is absolutely paranoid about it. The sight of a clipper of any kind heading toward him sends him into a panic. Again, we have tried most every trick we know, have read about, or have been told. We trim the girl's nails in front of him, we try the one-at-a-time method, worked on accustoming him to having his paws touched casually in an non-trimming situation (he really doesn't like it -- he tolerates it sometimes, and sometimes tries to run away), we used homoeopathic remedies.

Eventually, although I did not much like it, we got Acepromazine from the vet, and have given steadily increasing doses to calm him so that we can trim the nails. (Our vet wanted us to dose him up on Acepromazine and bring him in so that his techs could do the trim, but it seemed to us that the most likely result would be that he would develop a negative association with going to the vet's office, so we decided that we would just do it at home.) He seems to be developing a tolerance for the drug, though. He has never been quicked in any of our trimmings. I don't think that this is a dominance issue, as we don't have that problem in other areas. He is reasonably good in basic obedience, and we work nearly every day, although I am trying to speed up his compliance, which is one of the reasons I ordered prong collars and the Basic Obedience video. (Unlike the girl, he is not at all dog-aggressive.)

We have spoken to both breeders on numerous occasions, we e-mail regularly, and neither can think of any incident relating to nailclipping that would cause him to be so sensitive. I want to add that both breeders have been very straight with us, so I don't think this is a case of dumping the dog. Both of them are highly respected and well-known in the breed for producing quality dogs. And I can take him back at any time, no questions asked. I am dealing with really committed dog people -- the first breeder will (and has) take back any dog she has bred -- she's even driven halfway across the country to rescue one of her dogs that had been abandoned and picked up by animal control in the midwest, so I don't question that they are being candid and as helpful as they can.

So, does anyone have any thoughts on either the origin of, or solutions for, these two problems?

Thanks in advance.

Bryan Veis

You might try a heavy duty nail file to wear the nails down. It might not freak him out as much.

This site describes using a Dremel motor tool to grind down a dog's nails. Some dogs tolerate this better than clippers. You may also want to raise the level of treats to fresh liver.
http://homepages.udayton.edu/~merenski/doberdawn/index.html

I second the dremel. I've had much better luck with it than with clippers, and it leaves the nails in better shape. I have several, there's one with a rechargable battery pack that I used when showing, but the one I like the best is the bench model with the motor ON THE BENCH, not on the tool -- which means it's much lighter and less tiring.

It does take longer to do nails with the dremel. A blessing is if you get close to the quick, the wheel's heat will cauterize bleeders. Also, your dog will tell you when things are warm, leave off that nail for awhile and work on another one.

With feathery feet you need to cut down on tickling and also you don't want to catch feathers in the wheel. Stick the foot in a sock, and push the nail through the fabric. Kid's athletic socks work good on big dogs.

Use peanut butter anesthesia <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> When I have a nervous dog or pup, I wipe a big ol' hunk of peanut butter on the roof of their mouth. The nervous terv will zone while working on that and ignore most of what I do to their feet.

Go slow. A lump of peanut butter, one toenail a day, or even just running the dremel, and I'd call it a wrap. Work up to whole feet.

I'm a dremel tool user also, but the variation betwen my five dogs and how they accept nails being done is amazing.
All have advanced OB training:

My Czech male GSD just lays there - who thought he'd be such a cooperative SOB for nails?

My Mal pup struggles a bit, and then just lays there and drools.

My Showlines bitch shows teeth, but besides that it's not too much of a struggle.

My new Czech bitch is muzzled with strong friends helping me. She'd hurt me, given a chance - hope she gets use to it someday.

The Corgi just shakes during the whole procedure. :rolleyes:

My 9wk old GSD pup has been gettin his feet played with every day. I'v trimmed nails twice now and give a treat every snip of the trimmers. He's starting to relax and look for the treat. I do the same with his teeth. When he lets me rub them without chewing on me, he gets a treat. He's just as crazy as any terrier I've had but figures out what gets him the good stuff faster.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. Will, your post was particularly interesting in your description of your dogs' reactions to trimming. TM's typically tend to warn before they bite; they will simply place their teeth gently around the offender's arm or leg, and look up at them, as if to say, "I've reached my limit with you. Stop now, or I will bite you." Mine has done that twice to my knowledge - once to a friend of mine who was trying to help me catch him after he made a break for open country, and once the last time we tried to trim his nails -- he was very heavily tranquilized, and I was holding him down as my wife trimmed. After a couple of nails, he turned his head and got his mouth around my arm -- we stopped.

A muzzle might be the right answer here, although I would prefer to find a way to make this something other than a wrestling match. By reputation, TM's tend to be quite aloof and independent, but for the breed he is a fairly friendly, playful, and affectionate dog. I want to be very careful not to ruin that aspect of his personality, so I have to walk a fine line between positive and negative training stimuli. Some TM's become very antisocial with too much negative stimulation, and an antisocial TM is not a good dog to be around. I'm fortunate that he comes from good bloodlines and seems not to be predisposed to that. If he learns that the sight of a muzzle means that he is going to be muzzled, hog-tied, and clipped, I tend to think that he will react to about the same way as he reacts now to the sight of nail clippers. It will still be a wrestling match. Still, I will keep it in mind for later, if we can't work it out in some other way.

I think that we will give the Dremel a try, although I have some question in my mind about how a whirring electric motor is going to go over. I'll never know until I try, I guess.

Old earth dog, we still try to play with his feet every day -- he doesn't like it any better now than he did when we started. I think that getting him later in puppyhood really cut down on the effectiveness of that. We did that with our girl TM from 10 weeks on, and we have no problems trimming her nails. It's just so much easier to condition a puppy while it is still so young. By the way, what breed(s) of terriers do you work? We have a five-year-old Jack Russell in addition to the TM's -- he's a real pistol. He doesn't much like his nails trimmed, either, but he's alot easier to handle most of the time.

Stephan, we'll give the peanut butter anesthesia a try as well -- he doesn't particularly go for PB as a treat, but I certainly see your point and I think I could probably get a two- or three-finger glob in his mouth. He's a pretty big boy now, with a pretty big mouth; it might take a big handful to really keep him occupied. We'll probably have a major puddle of thick peanutty drool on the floor when it is over, though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Speaking of drool <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> , does anyone have any thoughts on my other question regarding nervous drooling in the crate and the car?

Bryan, My 4mo. old shepherd has a big problem riding in the car and experiences very heavy drooling. By the time I get to my destination he is covered in it and all slick and wet. I crate him in the back of my SUV and turn up the A/C full blast so I know that it is not because he is hot. If I feed him prior to riding sometimes he is fine and sometimes he vomits his entire meal. I'm curious if anyone else has a solution to these things?

Here's one thing that I haven't tried yet, so I can't vouch for it, although the guy who told me about it says it works for carsickness/drooling for his Leonbergers: Try putting a drop of peppermint oil (not extract) on a forepaw before getting in the vehicle. I haven't gotten around to trying this because we were doing some homeopathic things and our homeopathic doctor/advisor told me that peppermint oil reduces the effectiveness of homeopathic remedies. Apparently, licking the paw tends to calm the dog. Does anyone else know anything about this? I found only limited discussion of peppermint oil as a veterinary treatment in my internet searches.

Sounds interesting. My luck, it will stop the drooling but he will have licked all the hair off his paw and have a raw sore spot on it by the time I get to club. :rolleyes: