hi
hi everyone,
(it somehow posted before i typed)
please help with some advice/info:
2 weeks ago i bought my first bag of Canidae All Life Stages since the formula change. i have been GRADUALLY slowly mixing it in with what i had left of pre-change food. my dog is 7 months and he has eaten a combination of Canidae ALS and raw (chicken leg quarters mostly, some ground beef, some ground turkey, table spoon of yogurt w/breakfast, raw egg w/dinner and Ester C once a day). nothing has really changed until now. i had been told that the changes were not significant.

he barfed once or twice the 3rd or 4th day but acted fine, active, energetic--all good. then he barfed a second and third time on day 5 and 6 (i think he skipped a day here and there), stool normal the whole time, great appetite, but the barfing started to increase. he even barfed up a chicken leg about 20 mins after eating it yesterday morning, so even that wasnt staying down. i called the vet and he advised giving him so Benebac SID for three days. he had #2 dose last night. his meal generally comes up about 3 hours after eating.
this morning he started REALLY barfing, like every 20 mins. by this time it was only yellow foam/bile, 2 mins after that (while i was on the phone w/vet) he pooped and it was (for the first time) dhiareah. so we brought him in.
mind you, i worked there for 8 yrs and my best friend is the head tech, so she met us there. Jonah was STILL acting 100% bright & alert, not like he felt bad and i am sure he was REALLY hungry.
ok, so we took 2 films and no obstruction and no (forget the term) intestinal adhesion or pinch. just an empty gut with some gas pockets, no torsion.
the vet wanted to do a barium to rule out any foreign body. i tried to assure him that this dog is literally with me 24 hours a day and he hadnt eaten any foregn objects. he said he wanted to make sure the whole gut was able to pass & that there wasnt something in there not visible on the films. so i agreed. then he started telling me i was going to have to switch my food---TO SCIENCE DIET--b/c OF COURSE this issue was undoubtedly diet-related (and Science Diet is the cure-all and perfect food which he learned 30 yrs ago in vet school, dontcha know?) and all this "natural diet is nonsense". he said if the barium goes thru, he will go home on I/D b/c it is a bland diet. i said "i can give him boiled chicken and rice, that is bland" and he got PISSED and said "DO YOU WANT ME TO FIGURE OUT WHATS WRONG WITH YOUR DOG OR DO YOU WANT TO KEEP TELLING ME YOU ARE FEEDING THE BEST FOOD IN THE WORLD??!!" (which i never said, BTW). so he basically BULLIED me---as if diagnosing the prob wasnt 100% separate issue from me switching him to crap food afterwards? corn will solve everything, huh? (the implied threat was that i could load him up & take him home right then if i was going to argue....)

ok, so i said "fine I will feed him ID" which i will NOT. i guess i will be stuck buying a bag of it and donating it to the shelter...

anyhow, my Q's are: for those of you who feed Canidae ALS, have you had any reactions on the new formula amd if so, what? i was told that of the varieties Canidae makes, ALS was the "least changed" and that they only diversified the carbs but did not increase the % of carbs. i looked online & the changes are the addition of: white rice, rice bran, peas, pearled barley. we drew blood and sent off for an allergen panel to see if he is allergic to anything. that will tkae 2 weeks to find out.

i am not happy about these ingred changes, but i am on a budget & cant spend crazy amounts on kibble, as i already have to drive 2.5 hours to get it OR have it shipped. he has consistently been getting about 50% kibble and 50% raw. (my chi/doxie mix is eating all the smae and hasn't had ANY issues so it can't be a bad bag.)

has anyone heard or experienced any allergic reactions on the new formula? i am not convinced yet that is what this is. he has not been prone to digetive upsets before. his parents dont have IBS or food allergies. i will admit that barring an obstruction, this does seem the most logical and the timing fits with the increased barfing.
i wish i could change vets but this is a 2-vet town and the other is worse. i am SO angry that his obstinate closed-minded mindset resulted in him acting like a real JERK when i was disagreeing with him.

what is the best BLAND home-diet i can feed him when he gets home? is boiled chcken and brown rice still the best?
thx for letting me vent here. i am SO angry!! they will do the 2nd rad at 2:30, so we will see if that reveals anything going on.

please let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
thanks!!!!
jen

Consumer Reports, I think it is, has page after page of reports from pissed off owners whose dogs had a terrible time with the "new and improved" Canidae. The link was posted on this board not too long ago. I'm not sure if they formula you're feeding is included in the complaints.

I'll try to find the post.

It was Consumer Affairs. Here you go:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/canidae.html

Here's the post:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=211715&Searchpage=1&Main=20962&Words=canidae&topic=0&Search=true#Post211715

I'm really sorry this happened to you. That vet deserves to be smacked.

One thing really jumped out at me. I'll check in later and read the whole thread, but I had to long on and say "new vet." This one is so bad, based on this post, that I would not limit myself to one town to get a new one.

You are the paying customer. It is not acceptable for the vet to bully you into buying something that he makes money on. It is not acceptable for the vet to bully you, period.

In addition, his nutrition knowledge is very suspect. There is really no way to have a good working relationship built on this. JMO: Either he knows better and has sold out to his wallet or he has learned nothing about nutrition in thirty years. Pick one.

I'd find a new vet so fast that this one's head would spin, and I would be very clear and succinct about why.

 Quote: jennifer kline

we drew blood and sent off for an allergen panel to see if he is allergic to anything.

In addition, if the vet told you that blood tests can identify food allergies, he is absolutely incorrect.

This is a fairly common thing. Again, either he does not know that the RAST and ELISA blood tests are completely unreliable for pinpointing food allergens (and not the best tool for any allergies at all) or he has sold out -- pretending that it will be helpful in order not to lose the testing income to a derm vet (GP vets do not usually do intradermal skin testing) or just to lose it, period, because there is no lab test (yet) for canine food allergies.

Scroll down to "Blood Testing" here: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1664&aid=143

QUOTE: Many owners and veterinarians attempt to look to other tests to diagnose food allergies. Blood tests such as the RAST test or the ELISA test can be performed to screen for food allergies. In addition, intradermal skin testing could also be performed. Despite the fact that these tests are routinely performed and used as a diagnostic aid, there is no evidence that blood tests are accurate for the diagnosis of food allergies. Veterinary dermatologists insist that there is no merit in these tests whatsoever in the diagnosis of food allergies. The only way to accurately diagnose food allergies is with a food trial as detailed above. While the intradermal skin testing is excellent for diagnosing atopy (inhalant allergies) it is ineffective for food allergies. While the ELISA and to a lesser extent the RAST test can be used to help in the diagnosis of atopy, they have no benefit in diagnosing food allergies. In our review of all the current books and articles on veterinary dermatology and allergies, we could not find a single dermatologist that endorsed anything other than the food trial as an effective diagnostic aid. If you want to diagnose and treat food allergies you must do a food trial. END (I don't know how that could be any more to-the-point.)

Oh i am SO angry...i hate living in such a small town. it's SO hick and backwards. the other clinic is worse. like i said, i worked there for 8 yrs but that was before this vet bought it. i quit about 2 months after he bought it. but he knows i have this complete opposite opinion on feeding dogs & that i DETEST science diet and all the brain-washing they do in vet schools. the next town (75 miles away) has 1 vet & again, the same, OLD, old-country vet & also doesnt really believe in owners being educated or homeopathy or anything.

i went to that site with the complaints...OMG.

i have a lot of chicken leg quarters in the freezer. do i just boil them and then remove all bones and mix that with brown rice? should i add chicken broth at all?
huge waste of money at vet's (jerk) and the big-ass bag i had just bought---great, more $ down the drain. i am only thankful that it is this and now, simple to fix, not anythign surgical.

thnks. i will have to study and see what is comparable in price.
the allergy testing (already mailed off to the lab) will at least give me nice-to-know info. so unnesscessary. wonder WTH canidae REALLY did to the food to have SO many dogs have BAD probs on it????
thankyou

Connie,
here is th link to the lab, that suppsedly does food allergy testing from blood. i will look at the link you posted in a minute and see what it says...

http://www.vetallergy.com/pages/testingpanels.html

the one we submitted is the top one. that is what results it tells you.
i just called my friend and she will cancel the test.
thx...i will look at your links now.

jen

I would get the results of the barium test, and meanwhile I would fast the dog for at least 12 hours (but with plenty of hydrating, including baited water if necessary).

Then I would give a small meal of very soupy overcooked rice. It can be made with unsalted broth to make it more palatable. The next meal, if that goes well, is the same but with a little skinless chicken cooked into it. You could also add a little unsweetened canned pumpkin (not pie filling).

I would not add anything else until there was good poop on the rice gruel.

QUOTE: Different allergies will need to be diagnosed in different ways. For example inhalant allergies can be readily diagnosed by a blood test while food allergies require a diet trial. END
from http://www.vetlord.org/allergies-in-dogs-and-cats-why-is-my-pet-scratching/


QUOTE:The ideal method of diagnosis is the feeding of an elimination (“hypoallergenic&rdquo diet. The experience of the author and of other researchers has been disappointing in the use of serologic or intradermal skin tests to diagnose food allergy in pets in North America END
from http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00093.htm


QUOTE: The first step in diagnosing a food allergy is to eliminate all
possible allergens and feed ONLY a homemade diet with ingredients the
dog has never eaten before. END
from http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dogs-faq/medical-info/canine-allergies/


QUOTE: Some dogs suffer from intolerance to certain foods, and some owners mistake this as being a food allergy. There is a difference between being intolerant to a certain food and being allergic to it. Allergies usually cause skin irritation and/or itching of some sort. Food intolerance, on the other hand, causes diarrhea and/or vomiting but the skin related symptoms would not be present. END
from http://www.buzzle.com/articles/food-allergy-in-dogs.html

And here is the Merck Veterinary Manual, 9th edition, on food allergies:

QUOTE: There is no reliable diagnostic test other than a strict food elimination diet. Serologic testing and intradermal testing for food allergens have proved unreliable. END