My girlfriend recently got a Great Dane puppy at around 2 months of age, it is now about 3-4 months old I would guess. She has been good about crating the dog and giving it a structured housebreaking program, however the dog still makes a few mistakes when not crated. Not really the biggest problem.

Through the process of walking the dog, it went from pulling the leash to now respecting her lead. There are other signs, but basically the dog is displaying obedience and signs it recognizes her as higher in the pack.

Her nearly 3-year old son, however is a different matter. The pup (who seems to be a generally good natured female that loves attention) has gone from normal puppy biting which has been somewhat addressed by diversion, to displaying other behaviors that seem like dominance though the dog seems too young to be doing it.

At one point when the child was playing or interacting with his mom, the dog trotted up and knocked/butted the boy over flat to the ground. Other times now, the dog will block and get between the mom and her child. The dog will still nip at the child but seemingly not in any aggressive or growly/angry way. The dog at some point apparently regularly tried to pin or be on top of the child when the two would play. Don't know if that is still going on. Overall it's clear that while the dog respects the owner, it does not respect the child.

The dog also considers anything that hits the ground as hers...though she is not growling or nipping when the items (can be toys, clothes, random objects) are taken away, she does tend to regularly cart them off.

The dog was at one point sleeping with her owner in the bed when she was much smaller, but as of late the owner has begun making the dog sleep on the floor and forbidding the dog to sleep in the bed. The dog was also constantly trying to sit/sleep on the couch, which is now subsiding as the owner has consistently been pushing the dog off.

My question is, I thought that dominance and pack related issues occurred much older? The puppy is still very friendly but these behaviors are there. The owner recently began correcting the dog via newspaper swat (which I know is not recommended) when it engaged in bad behaviors like nipping or being rough with her son and she claims it seems to be working better than previous efforts.

She does not want to use an electric collar as she feels it would be "electrocuting" the dog, and currently does not keep any type of correction collar or drag leash on the dog while it is in the house.

Any recommendations and advice on whether this is dominance that needs to be dealt with or normal puppy behavior not to be worried about?

Thanks.

To me, this seems to be relatively normal puppy behavior - they bite, jump on things, etc. The question is - how come the child and puppy are allowed to interact in this fashion? Why are they not separated? Since the puppy is nipping (and it will only get worse as she teeths) it is bound to get worse and potentially dangerous.

I do not know how tall a great dane puppy at 3-4 months stands, but I imagine pretty tall and probably quite level (or very soon to be level) with the 3-year old child's face. Not trying to scare, but I've seen friendly dogs play with small children and the accidents that follow.

 Quote: paul erickson

Overall it's clear that while the dog respects the owner, it does not respect the child.

The dog does not respect the owner. These are pack rules that the dog is breaking. When you allow the same freedoms and rewards to a dog as with a small child the dog sees herself on the same level and she will challenge, even as a pup! Have you seen the video "Establishing pack structure with the family pet?" If you haven't I recommend it.

http://leerburg.com/flv/video.php?id=19

 Quote:

Overall it's clear that while the dog respects the owner, it does not respect the child.

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Any recommendations and advice on whether this is dominance that needs to be dealt with or normal puppy behavior not to be worried about?

YES YES YES!! I would NEVER put the safety of a child behind that of a dog. The dog should be on a leash tethered to its owner and probably shouldn't interact with the child at all now, I wouldn't trust it. I would also NEVER allow a dog that didn't 100% respect everyone on a 'human place' such as a couch or bed.

I like Ed's Pack structure dvd,
http://leerburg.com/308.htm

and I've never watched his puppy dvd, but it has a chapter on kids and dogs
http://leerburg.com/120.htm

I train my dog to see that everything is mine and for him to use it will be a PRIVILEGE. If he gets to play with a ball it's because I initiated it and it is MY ball. When I want to stop he stops. If I want him on the couch I will invite him. He isn't allowed up on his own.

I'm not sure how to teach the dog that the child is to be respected, I'm sure someone will help you with that (you came to the right place ) but I would not let the dog interact with the child AT ALL until you do. Keep the dog in a crate or another safe place away from her son.

Paul, first of all, welcome. You are in the right place!
It sounds like your girlfriend is doing some things right, but missing the mark on others.

Yes, it's very likely that this pup views himself as higher in the pack than the 3 year old. It's up to your girlfriend to redirect (or correct) the pup when he exhibits these behaviors. Needless to say, a rolled-up newspaper is not the best method!

First thing is, attach a short drag line to the pup in the house. This could be a leash with the loop cut off. When the pup does things like grab a dropped toy, you can quickly grab the lead and have the pup drop the item. Then, redirect to a puppy toy. Much easier to control the situation with a lead than by grabbing the pup's collar...

Same thing when he stands over the 3 year old when they are playing. This is a no-no; with a lead on, a firm 'No!' and then redirect should get the point across... btw, your girlfriend should curtail any rough play between the pup and her son. This is asking for trouble at some point (IMO). And, she should ALWAYS be directly supervising their interactions.



Here are links to 2 videos that would be wonderful for your girlfriend. Pakced with lots of good info for new puppy owners!

PS, Her pup sounds like a normal 4 month old puppy to me! Remember, a pup is pretty much a blank slate (with needle sharp teeth) He needs to be taught/shown how to behave and interact with the family...
http://leerburg.com/120.htm (Your puppy; 8 weeks to 8 months)

http://leerburg.com/308.htm (Pack Structure for the Family Pet)

Whoops, I see that I've posted the same links as Jennifer; I'm a slow typer!

Thanks for the advice everyone, please keep it coming. Also what are opinions on the use of remote collars? I had an ex's cousin demo one to me that she used with her dogs, for kicks I put it on and she hit me with the highest level and it stung but it was like a bad nerve/muscle stim on overload. Nothing at all like getting shocked with a car battery or home current, getting hit with a true stun gun, (yes, I have experienced all of the preceding) or getting "electrocuted" like some people worry is happening to their dog.

Being a busy mom and constantly needing to study she cant always be there to give a correction immediately after the dog is doing something bad (again an argument to leave the dog crated when it cannot be directly supervised), but my thought was that something like the remote collar would be useful for correction/reinforcement when she has indirect/peripheral view (e.g. in the kitchen, or studying at the dinner table while they are 15-20 feet away).

Is there a stigma for the most part about remote collars on pups (is it considered more cruel than using a hard correction with a regular collar) or how do people feel? I dont think she would consider it as she considers it cruel and electrocuting the dog, but I'm just wondering if it may prove to be a practical option if she can't disengage constantly to run up to correct the dog all the time using a drag leash or her current use of a rolled up magazine/newspaper (and she doesnt want to keep it crated all the time indoors).

I am not sure how she would respond to keeping her son and the pup isolated, I think she really wants them to get along well.

The owner will do best to control his environment. An e-collar isn't a substitute for a drag lead, tethering, and crating with a puppy. Set him up for success with environmental control. It's much easier (really!), and far better for the owner-puppy bond than to hit him for doing what puppies do.

I'd watch the videos and check out the links above. The info is solid and accessible.

A toddler and a big puppy have to be separated, always, when not under close right-there supervision.

Welcome to the board! The owner is fortunate to have you gathering info for her and the pup.

 Quote: Paul Erickson

.... Being a busy mom and constantly needing to study she cant always be there to give a correction immediately after the dog is doing something bad (again an argument to leave the dog crated when it cannot be directly supervised), but my thought was that something like the remote collar would be useful for correction/reinforcement when she has indirect/peripheral view (e.g. in the kitchen, or studying at the dinner table while they are 15-20 feet away).

That's why tethering (to the owner) keeps coming up.

This is like a child. Control the environment. When he's older he won't do the things puppies do; meanwhile, set him up for success by preventing it.

Paul, she needs to wrap her head around the idea that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I don't think anyone here will advocate the use of an e-collar (or a harsh correction w/ a flat collar for that matter) with a 4 month old puppy.

She's not doing the puppy any favors by allowing it to roam freely around the house, piddling and chewing and generally doing the annoying things that puppies do.

It's pretty simple; if she can't directly supervise the pup, it should be crated or tethered to her. Naptime (the 3 year old's that is) might be a good time to try tethering the pup to her, if she's willing. She might also try gating off the kitchen (if that's possible) to give a pup a safe place to stretch it's legs and stay out of trouble. This doesn't resolve the peeing issue though...

Run a few of the good suggestions that folks here have given you and see if she's receptive to any of them...

Paul,

Rolled up newspaper...oh HORROR!!!

Do what Connie is advising, it really works and is a non-confrontational, calm controlled system for pup & owner.

I tethered Tazer (GSD) to me in the first 2 weeks of bringing him home. Without exception, ALL the time when he wasnt in his crate... I used my ankle alot when hands werent available...it was so easy, once I got the hang of it. He couldnt get into mischief and we had a very calm start to life in this house! That calmness has continued over the last 6weeks and I am amazed how he listens and obeys my commands, he doesnt feel confronted I am sure. I guess he got the house rules really quickly, it was that or we would have been tethered together for years...maybe he picked up on that....my will and his will....no competition control freak that I am

Please urge your G/F to try this tethering and crate technique...neither processes are cruel...Hitting poor puppy with the NY Times, Sunday edition(or whatever)IS...

Good Luck, you are on the right site...there is a TON of knowledge here...

Regards...Kahryn