Did you all know that the plumber ... yes, I said the plumber ... is THE dog expert? Yes, I am sure there are plumbers out there who know a lot about dogs, but this plumber has trained his "high strung" border collie and thus knows all about all dogs. I am speaking in particular of my new malinois, Roka.

I was gone most of the day, when I got home the plumber was here fixing our plumbing issue (I did NOT consult him about a dog issue). I had been gone and wasn't going to have time to take Roka for his regular walk so I put him on the tie out to potty. He was out a total of about 15 minutes while he went potty and I put more straw in his crate. Well, the plumber came to see what all the commotion was about (Roka is slightly psychotic when he is on the chain ... or in his crate ... or on the leash ... you get the idea) and said the chain was ruining the dog. I explained to him that this was all of the 3rd time Roka had been on the chain in the about 2 weeks that I have had him and that the chain was not his problem, all this got a "yeah right" look from the plumber, even though he saw me bring the dog out and put him on the chain ... he was NOT there all day, he is NOT a chained dog, but we don't have a fence.

I also told him that since I was gone all morning and part of the afternoon that his lack of walk today was part of his problem today, but that his main problem was that his previous owners did not work him. So he replied that a dog needed to be worked with and that if I worked with him he would calm down, the problem is that I am not working with him! This flew all over me. Roka gets walked then trained 2-3 times a day, minimum. I work with the dog, but 2 weeks is not enough time to take a high strung, hyper, working lined dog who has not been touched and turn him into a perfect canine citizen who acts like a calm, cuddly pet (which he will never be).

What happened next was what was very disturbing to me. In spite of my requests, pleas, and demands to leave my dog alone, the plumber proceeded to "show me how to calm him down." This entailed BENDING OVER THE DOG, PHYSICALLY RESTRAINING HIM, AND TRYING TO MAKE HIM SIT! Roka responded by looking at him like he was a total idiot. I was horrified and was sure this "dog expert" was going to get a face bite. Finally, he ended his idiocy and let Roka return to his psychosis. I quickly finished refreshing his straw and stuffed him back in his crate.

I will never again even let my dogs out to potty if there is anyone on the property. I didn't know what to do. Telling him, and pleading with him, to leave my dog alone fell on deaf ears. He is just sure that I am doing it wrong and that he knows better ... and he was able to make me feel like a fool with his condescending attitude. What do you people do when a blunt "leave my dog alone" doesn't work? Explaining that he was a working dog that I was going to use for Schutzhund or SAR did not make any impression (he still should be worked like his pet BC). Telling him that I did not want him dominated and his socialization was strictly controlled earned a "you are stupid" look. Telling him to get away from him didn't work. How do you protect your dogs from idiots who don't get it once you have already messed up and allowed the situation to occur? I never dreamed someone would be that stupid and completely disregard my wishes for my dog. I never dreamed anyone would march over to my crazy mal AND TRY TO DOMINATE HIM! I am just at a loss. I feel horrible for letting my dog get into this situation and feel very lucky that 1. Roka was as bewildered as I was, and 2. That he wasn't old enough to be as likely to view this as an overt threat and respond accordingly. I guess I should have just left him in his crate and let him pee on himself.

Oh, I also found out that when he was here a few days ago he fed my old GSD 2 McDonalds hamburgers "because she is skinny and looks hungry!" Yes, she is too skinny. Is it because I don't feed her? No, it is because I have a hard time getting the old girl to eat. McD's burgers are not the answer (actually I have found a food she eats well and she is starting to gain some weight). What if she had been a dog with digestive issues and those burgers had made her violently ill? Then she may have lost more weight, which in her case, may have killed her! She is on a specific diet that she eats and is helping her to gain weight ... LEAVE HER ALONE!

I feel like complaining to his supervisor and making sure he never comes again ... BUT ... he is the first plumber (out of 5 or 6 in the last 1.5 years) who is actually fixing our sewer problem right. If we chase him off, we will probably be stuck with trying to get it fixed ourselves (it is warrantee work). I am stuck with the dumber plumber and can't chase him off, but can and will keep my dogs away from him from now on.

 Quote: elisabeth barber

I explained to him that this was all of the 3rd time Roka had been on the chain in the about 2 weeks that I have had him and that the chain was not his problem .... I also told him that since I was gone all morning and part of the afternoon that his lack of walk today was part of his problem today .... In spite of my requests, pleas, and demands to leave my dog alone, the plumber proceeded to "show me how to calm him down." .... Explaining that he was a working dog that I was going to use for Schutzhund or SAR did not make any impression .... Telling him that I did not want him dominated and his socialization was strictly controlled earned a "you are stupid" look. ....

I don't ever do that kind of engaging any more. If I was worried about some kind of AC complaint, I might say simply that he was there to potty only. Explanations and discussions about why someone may not handle, touch, feed, command, or in any other way interact with my dog are just not necessary and, in fact, are counterproductive (IMO) because they imply that it's open to a vote.

I understand the POV about someone who is finally "actually fixing the plumbing," but that is not an adequate reason for me.

At the time, I think that I would have said VERY briefly that he must step away from the dog or I would have to call 911.

I think that I would print out your post, highlight the big points, call the supervisor, and explain why I must have a different person finish the job, using the printout to keep myself on topic and not stammering with emotion.



There is another issue here, though: I'd be very reluctant (in fact, I probably would not do it) to tie out a dog (never mind a new one who is "is slightly psychotic when he is on the chain") in an unfenced yard for any length of time at all. The dog would be on a leash and I'd be holding the other end.

I'm not in any way excusing the moronic and arrogant plumber's actions. I would be furious. He would never be on my property again.

I am responding to two separate issues: the plumber's zero right to do what he did, and what I am interpreting as a potentially dangerous action (tying out the dog in an unfenced yard).

The ways in which tying out a dog in an unfenced yard are numerous. You've had the unfortunate experience to encounter two of them, including feeding who-knows-what to one and the whole physical thing with the other dog.

If someone was ever going to be in my house without me being there (which is pretty shaky anyway), the dogs would be crated and they would not be in a room where the repair person was working.

Whew. I am agitated just imagining my reaction to either of those two extremely brassy moves. I would even guess that laws were broken by that guy. Both times.

I am so sorry this happened to you!

Didn't you know that a plumbing license also includes a Phd. in dog behavior? That's why having your plumbing fixed costs so much.

LOL Matt, I guess I know now.

And Connie, I understand what you are saying about the tie out, but I had to clean out and re-straw his crate, I can't do that while holding him and didn't have anyone else to hold him for me (my family can't handle him anyway, he needs way more work before they hold the other end of the leash). He is rarely tied out, mainly because of how he acts, and none of them are left tied out if I am not outside to keep an eye on them (which I failed to mention). I had a dog nearly die from strangulation on a tie out several years ago (due to a failed swivel and a dog that kept running in circles until he twisted everything TIGHT) and I am paranoid about letting a tied dog out of my sight. I also don't believe that being tied for long periods of time is in the best interest of the dog, as you said, for many reasons.

The shepherd wasn't tied out when he fed her either, she was in a kennel. Also, someone was home, it just wasn't me, and they were not outside. I was working a casual labor shift for an after Thanksgiving sale (I normally work from home, being gone for more than errands is a rare occurrence for me).

I do have kennels, but don't keep Roka in one (I'm quite sure he'd find a way out, and that would be a HUGE disaster) and I don't keep Heida in one yet either, they stay in crates and usually get walked on leash to potty. Roka has a couple times used the tie out, and I have a small fenced area (4-foot fence) that Heida plays in when I'm home ... until she gets much bigger, but by then she won't have to be pottied quite as often.

I also understand what you are saying about engaging in explanation. I don't know why, but he made me feel the need to explain. He made me feel like I was abusing or neglecting my dogs or just plain "doing it wrong" and I was feeling a little defensive, I guess. I know my dogs are well cared for, they are fed, walked, trained, loved, and kept clean and safe (except from stupid people I guess, and I do know that this situation was my failing), I don't know what I worry about so much.

 Quote: elisabeth barber

...The shepherd wasn't tied out when he fed her ...

No, I got that; I just meant that this too could happen with a dog tied out.

 Quote: elisabeth barber

... He made me feel like I was abusing or neglecting my dogs or just plain "doing it wrong" and I was feeling a little defensive, I guess. I know my dogs are well cared for, they are fed, walked, trained, loved, and kept clean and safe .... I don't know what I worry about so much. ...

Oh my, yes, I totally get that. It's hard for me to follow my own "no engaging" rule!

For me, it's something that I have to decide in advance, like a life code, because once the situation is actually here, I am so likely to blather on and on and defend myself to someone who is entitled to nothing of the sort and who is not a suitable "project," either. I just have to make the rule when I am clear-headed, and then, when the situation arises and I am agitated, just rely on the rule.

 Quote: Elisabeth Barber

I understand what you are saying about the tie out, but I had to clean out and re-straw his crate, I can't do that while holding him and didn't have anyone else to hold him for me ..... and none of them are left tied out if I am not outside to keep an eye on them (which I failed to mention) ....

OHHHH!

OMG, that makes the whole plumber thing ten times worse!

I was addressing a non-existent issue. A dog tied out in an unfenced yard with the owner present is not even related to what I was addressing. I'm sorry.

No need to apologize, in my frustration I failed to mention all the details, that was my fault.

And yeah, I was right there begging him to leave my dog alone. I had just tied him up and was about to clean out his crate when he came over to give me an unsolicited dog training lesson. I had plenty of those at TCA, thank you Mr. Plumber. I may not be a great trainer and obviously don't even have a drop from the proverbial bucket of knowledge, but judging by this encounter (and his BC, which kind of listens) I know a whole lot more about dog training and working dogs than he does.

I felt like a babbling idiot. He talks so much (and talks over people) that I don't think he heard very much of what I said anyway, he was too busy with his lecture. He is really very nice, but there is something about him that makes me feel insignificant. I think it is that habit of talking over people and jumping to a conclusion before my thought is even half expressed (if that makes any sense).

Anyway, he won't be back until next week (when I will be here and Roka will be in his crate AND WON'T COME OUT! Since the weather is cool enough, I may even stick his crate in the van and lock it up so Mr. Plumber doesn't have any chance of interaction with him.

I really wish I could just have him not come back, but in this situation it is really not an option. The work has to be done, and since it is at the companies expense, if we get too demanding on who (especially since their last 2 people royally messed it up) it may not get done or may not get done right (again). It was so bad we had sewage seeping under our house. It just HAS to be taken care of, and right.

I can't oust the plumber, but now that I know he's so dumb (I should just assume this of all people ... maybe this time I've learned my lesson) I will make sure he is nowhere near my dogs. If I have to leave for any reason, I'll just load up the dogs and take them all with me!

Elisabeth,

This is less of a plumber/plumbing issue than a human nature issue. Some of us conclude that if we handle one situation, we are experts. So if something works with our dogs, we are expert trainers. If something works with our kids, we are expert parents. And lets not forget that plastic pipe has made us all plumbers

How many of us think we are computer experts because we know how to find a file on a PC hard drive?

 Quote: elisabeth barber

...I will make sure he is nowhere near my dogs. If I have to leave for any reason, I'll just load up the dogs and take them all with me!

Good.

You can't argue with an idiot (or so my father always said).

I never bother explaining anything to anyone any longer; if someone is sincerely interested, that's a different thing, but otherwise, my dog is no one's business. Period.

And, no one would ever be in my home when I'm not there, especially when it comes to my dog! I think your plan to keep your dogs with you while the plumber (or anyone else, for that matter) is on your property is a good idea.

Doesn't sound like you can rely on other family members, either, in this kind of situation, without significant remediation (even then, I don't trust anyone like I trust myself).

This whole thing just makes me nuts, just from reading your description...I can imagine what it does to you<g>.

I can sure understand your feeling intimidated by this "expert." Some people are very good at doing that to others. Just remember that everyone is a dog training expert<g>.

Hope he's good enough to resolve your plumbing problem quickly.

leih

I hope it was just a funky day, but I kinda feel like we have gone backward after the plumber incident. Maybe he was just crazier today, but when I let him out this morning for his walk, we were both bleeding by the time I got the leash on (him because he bit his own tongue while he was chomping my hands ... me because he scraped me with his last puppy tooth while chomping on my hands).

I had gotten him (with much work) to where I could get the leash on without TOO much hassle, but today it was like trying to leash an angry coon. He was twisting and screaming and grabbing me with his paws (with his sharp, nasty nails I haven't yet tried to trim ... that should be fun). You would have thought I was beating the dog the way he screamed.

He has never liked having his collar grabbed, but I have been working hard at getting him to accept it and he has been making progress ... today that all seemed to be lost. I didn't think I was going to get the leash clipped to his collar. We went sans prong today because I wasn't going to push my luck ... no sense in stressing the dog even more. My back is cursing me now (likely mostly from having to fight with him and partly from his pulling on his walk). He didn't get an evening walk because I barely can.

Please tell me that he was just having a testy day and seeing if his old behavior would work and it wasn't from the plumber. Please tell me I don't have to start all over! I know it is probably one of those things that I will find out by how he behaves in the next few days, but I am afraid that few minutes with the plumber has screwed up a lot of the work we had done.

I am feeling very discouraged today (and quite battered) and very angry with the plumber once again. This morning actually made me question my ability to handle Roka ... even though I know better than that. He is definitely a challenge, perhaps the most challenging dog I've had so far, but when I look at things objectively and not emotionally, I know I can do it. It was just a very discouraging day.