Hi, I'm 17 and I have 2 dogs, a jack russell/collie/unknown cross and a one and a half year old male yugoslavian working line Doberman called Murdock.
I have his obedience fairly well, as good as I can get it in my circumstances (no safe enclosed field for real off lead work, etc.)
I'm no way an expert but I'm the best dog trainer I know. (whaddya expect, it's Ireland) I have leerburg.com to thank for that.

The problem is, my father interferes with stuff to do with the dog and I feel that its causing a lot of the dogs problems. There is no consistency between members of the household. I am the only one who can control him. Next is my mother, who does her best and is willing to learn and listen to me, but Murdock tends to push her around - she's not very dominant.
My brother (24), stiil lives at home, and when he is here is just useless. I would love if he just ignored Murdock. He dosn't understand corrections or attempt to give any, and does not assert himself (at least when I'm there. He basically lets the dog do whatever he wants, climb on him, jump up when my brother has a plate of food...whatever. My brother just pretends like its a wild beast coming at him and acts scared. All I want him to do is just say no to the damn dog climbing on him. He's not scared, and I can't watch and control the dog all the time. Then he plays with him in secret, which usually consists of making the dog bark at something (which is something I discourage) or tugging and letting the dog win of course.

My father...he is just terrible.
I don't know how many times I have told him how to behave around Murdock. "Just give him a stern no", "Don't let him do that", whatever, I've explained in detail the theory of dog training, the stages, how to give corrections, what to do in this situation, everything, numerous times. He refuses to listen, or remember anything I say. (He is actually like this with everything)
He complains that the dog hits and scratches the door, yet refuses to correct him properly. He complains about the dog putting his paws on him when they're dirty, but refuses to correct him, and allows it when they're clean. He lets the dog come up to him when he's eating, and basically stick his face in, inches away from his plate, and complains when he drools. He sometimes lets the dog sit on him like a lap dog, without an invitation. He lets the dog jump on him and holds his paws up when he feels like it, other times he goes crazy.
My dads way is to let the dog do whatever he is doing, say nothing, wait until you're really angry and explode. Blame me and the dog. A really clear message for poor Murdock Im sure....

Me and my mother are supposed to be in charge of the dog, and we feed him, but when he feels like it, my dad feeds Murdock. And usually feeds him the wrong food. He has no consideration.
Tonight when I went to feed him he was already eating. Scraps and kibble. He was supposed to have leftover lamb and different kibble.
Murdock is only allowed in the kitchen because he goes crazy in the rest of the house, marks, and will escape out the front door.
My dad takes him out by the collar into the rest of the house sometimes, or lets him out into the hall, blocking his way with chairs (why I don't know). He dosn't bother to lock the door or check for the cat (who he tries to kill). If someone walked through the door, Murdock would be gone in a second, and its extremely hard to get him back. He has no street sense, there is legislation on Dobermans and low-life, nosey neighbours to deal with.
He sometimes takes Murdock for walks, with or without me knowing. I hate this, because he has no idea how to control him. Murdock pulls and I always have a prong on him and try to reduce the pulling as much as possible through short pops, but he still attempts to pull. His recall is bad. I never let him off lead, only sometimes at night in a quiet empty field with an e-collar on, and a torch. My dad brings him out on a flat collar and keeps the lead tight. He lets him off in the fields where there is a main road close by and lots of other people walk their dogs (which makes lots of scent trails for Murdock to run off on). He dosn't know his way around the fields. Murdock has been attacked by Greyhounds when he was young so he is scared of them and cannot be let off lead anywhere near other dogs.
Murdock jumps on the counters and steals and eats/destroys anything he can get. Chairs must be put around the worktops to block him, and nothing can be left in reach. The kitchen has to be checked before leaving, or the dog put outside. My dad has had phones and other things destroyed by being careless. Murdock also raids the bin.

Murdock has escaped many times, always my dads fault. Never has he escaped while in mine or my mothers care. I have considered rehoming Murdock, who is my dog, but my dad didn't want to so I wasn't allowed.
I know my father will be the death of Murdock sooner or later.


Sorry for the length of this post, just had to get it off my chest. My dad is causing me so much stress. I want to just give up ownership of Murdock and say 'here - he's yours to ruin and I am not taking responsibility for him. We'll see what he turns into when I'm not involved.' But I know it will end badly.

Is it possible to do anything here? Can I get a well behaved dog in such a family/pack situation?? I know he does need more excersise too, but that is not the main cause of the problems, I'm sure.

This is more of a human training problem that a dog one, but if you have the patience to read the post, I'd appreciate any help of suggestions.


Cheers.

Here is something that might help: Watch the video that you think would be most helpful (maybe Basic Obedience http://leerburg.com/302.htm ) together. Do it in installments.

I would probably get my mother on my side in the project of arranging family viewing.

Ed is almost certainly going to be more convincing than any kind of family arguments can be. If you bite the bullet and simply watch with positive comments (no "See, you idiots!? I told you!" ), you might see lightbulbs light up.

You could get your mother to help by showing her your post, maybe. She may not realize just what a problem this is.

I agree with you that some of this is sheer insanity, and that you probably have to ask for help rather than put up the kind of fight that brings defenses up and hardens people into continuing something that's patently stupid and dangerous just to show that they will not be dictated to.

Some of it might not be as bad, and I would pick my battles carefully. If the dog learns obedience from his primary handler and gets a lot of training every day from that person, then the undoing by the brother isn't going to be a complete disaster.

I disagree about the exercise. Not only is a ton of structured exercise going to be excellent for bonding and for a better-behaved (tired is good) dog -- it's going to reinforce, every single day, on every single walk, pack structure. Are you good at this? Do you march along, setting the pace and direction, and allowing the dog plenty of "dog time," but at YOUR discretion, with a release word of some kind? This can make up for a lot of laxness at home with others, IMO.

 Quote: Frankie Kinsella

His recall is bad. I never let him off lead, only sometimes at night in a quiet empty field with an e-collar on, and a torch.

This would be my first project, and I would waste no time.

Have you read any of the recall threads here? There are some detailed and extremely useful posts about this, including how to start over when it has been screwed up. (This has been screwed up, we know, just from the statement His recall is bad.)

Let us know if you have not. I can find some if you have trouble with the search function.

You have some work to do! Rewarding work, that you will always have to fall back on, and that can save a dog.

Thanks Connie! The family watching of the obedience DVD (I have it) may be a good idea. But knowing my dad it might just be a joke, and he will follow it for a day or two then it will fade away again... But I'll be positive!


On walks, I do try to keep him walking properly, beside me, but he is very persistant and stubborn, and if you relax for a minute he will be putting pressure on the lead again. It makes walking him unpleasant. I certainly do not let him drag me, its just that pressure that is really annoying. Clicker training did seem to work for this for a while and he seemed to be making an effort not to pull. I will try this again perhaps.
When we get into a field from off a lane, I usually let the lead go longer and him sniff around etc. I don't have a release word for this specifically, but I tend to just say "ok" which I also use when letting him off lead or letting him go again after doing something to him (cleaning paws for example). Perhaps I should have a different word for the "dog time"?

A large area of country to walk through would be perfect, but I'm pretty much limited to going down and up a lane leading to a main road which I can't go one because we get stopped by cops (BSL), or the fields where there are usually humans with or without ill mannered dogs who like to harass Murdock. I guess the lane is fine for just walking up and down, plus a lap around the neighbouring field? He never seems to tire though on lead unless maybe I walk with him for hours. He always sleeps for days after shows.

I have worked on his recall, but not enough. I have done long line training and remote collar training. He will come back, just not if there is any sort of distraction, and he thinks its hilarious, running around knowing I'm not in control. He's nearly been killed when he was younger by running out onto a main road. I was untying him from a gate while I was getting over, and he noticed he was untied for a slipt second and made a run for it. I was distraught, couldn't get him back for ages. My fault.
Before I had the remote collar I took chances letting him have a run, but eventually he would decide to mix it up a bit and not come back, running in wider circles getting further away. I suppose its after these kind of things happening that I've been so afraid to let him off lead ever, even with the e-collar on.
I taking him out at night with the torch and e-collar is a good start because he is good and does come back, I'm working on getting him to come quicker. Also, I look for rabbits when we're out and let him chase them (sort of half heartedly lamping, a traditional style of hunting here), which is a distraction which I think is good for him to get used to chasing them, then being called back and coming no questions asked.

He actually has a weird fascination with lights. Torch beam and light refections. He will stare at the ground and try to catch the light. I'm not sure what to make of it. Perhaps I should not encourage him with the torch.

Anyway, thanks for the help mate, I'll work on what you said!

 Quote: Frankie Kinsella

.... Before I had the remote collar I took chances letting him have a run, but eventually he would decide to mix it up a bit and not come back, running in wider circles getting further away. I suppose its after these kind of things happening that I've been so afraid to let him off lead ever, even with the e-collar on. .... He actually has a weird fascination with lights. Torch beam and light refections. He will stare at the ground and try to catch the light. I'm not sure what to make of it. Perhaps I should not encourage him with the torch. ...

Back later after field training, but just wanted to say PLEASE do not encourage any fascination with lights, whether flashlights or lasers. This is begging for a bad case of OCD. It's not at all rare, and preventing it is easy; curing it is not.

As for the recall, you have trained him that it's not only optional, but that you will play keep-away -- a fun game for him. I'd read up asap on teaching the recall, even if you must change your word, which is now pretty badly tainted.

Ok, thanks.

Do you live in the area of Ireland where it's illegal to let Dobes etc. off lead?

I would suggest doing more training and exerscise with him. Buy a resonanably secure kennel and run - I got one off of ebay (only wooden but ok)- padlock it so you are the only one with access, if they can't access the dog they won't be able to destroy it's training.

I had to change my word, and it is working much better now, far from where it needs to be, but certainly better than barking in my face then running further away.

I even added another separate command for inside so that "come" would be always fun for now.

Tanith, yes, in all of Ireland its illegal to have 11 breeds of dog off lead, they must be on a short lead, handles by someone over 16 and be muzzled. This includes GSD's, Rotts, Dobes, Bullmastiffs, Staffordshire Bull Terrier (an absolute joke, have you seen those little things?), Akitas, EBTs, etc. and crosses of those breeds. They have even brought out a ban on all those dogs in Dublin Council estates with no warning which meant people had to put down or find homes for their dogs immediately. Thank God I don't live in Dublin.
Its so ridiculous, the cops don't even know the law, I was stopped by {EDIT} and asked if my dog was a "doverman". And he told me I had to be over 18 to walk him, when the law says its 16. I could go into details of more {EDIT} police, but I wont.

Good idea about the kennel and run.
We plan to get an outside kennel for Murdock, and we were going to get another dog (working lurcher) for outside too. The garden is a sludgy muck heap after an extension, it was supposed to be sorted by New Year but this family is late with everything. Can't really do anything with the garden at the moment. I think a run would be too big for the garden, but if Murdock was to live outside more I think it would be a lot better.


God I would love to live in rural Canada or America, there would be no problem! Big enough garden for a run, big enough house to move wthout tripping over, and enough space to walk dogs!

I willprobably change my word to "here" Jennifer, or train him again in German! lol


Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/06/2009 01:18 PM)
Edit reason: inappropriate

 Quote: frankie kinsella

....The garden is a sludgy muck heap after an extension, it was supposed to be sorted by New Year but this family is late with everything. Can't really do anything with the garden at the moment.

Starting again with the recall can be anywhere, including a basement or cellar or any medium-to-large room with just you and the dog.

Have you had a chance to read up on some of the many very good detailed recall training threads here?



P.S. If you tainted "come," you could change to "here," or vice versa.

I want to add that training the recall can be the most fun of all the commands.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/06/2009 01:22 PM)
Edit reason: p.s.