There are so many things to consider when looking for a breeder.

Two of the things a breeder is supposed to be able to discuss are the health and temperament issues in their lines. In the past, when I've asked various GSD breeders this question, I've often received, "haven't had any health/temperament issues in our pups."

However, in those days, I never thought to ask, "how, exactly, do you track your progeny?"

My guess is that with many breeders, once the pup is out the door with its new owners, that's the end of their knowledge of that pup and its specific life. Perhaps they operate under the assumption that "no news is good news."

I have an incredible GSD, who is nearly 11 years old now. I picked her breeders because of her lines, and because they seemed like very responsible breeders. I travelled to HI to meet them and see their kennel and meet their dogs (and especially, to meet the parents of the litter I was considering) (too bad about having to make that trip, eh? ). It was also important to me that they get to know me and what I was looking for so that they could pick the right pup for me.

However, I've often thought about the fact that they have never once followed up in any way to find out anything about how she turned out.

Now, they received years worth of emails from me (she is probably their most well-documented progeny in this regard), especially each time we earned a new title. But this isn't the same as a breeder tracking progeny.

So, given that a new puppy is on the event horizon for me, I have been thinking a lot about this whole topic.

To breeders...how do you (or, do you) track your progeny? What do you ask about, if you do? If you don't, what are the reasons?

To owners/handlers...have your breeders ever contacted you to obtain information about your pup as it developed, and if so, did this continue for the life of the dog? (If the dog is still with you, has it continued as long as you've had the dog?)

I truly don't see how breeders can make adjustments in their breeding programs without knowing a lot about their progeny. I think that in a smaller subset of working line breeders, in which it's probably easier to keep track of what's happening with their progeny because people from their own clubs own their pups, etc., or because of the word-of-mouth elements of a specific sport or a well-known breeder, that there is more knowledge of what's going on in the pups they're breeding. But, I suspect for the vast majority of breeders, that not much tracking is being done at all.

I'm curious to find out what others have experienced in this area.

leih

It has only been a year for me but I email my breeder. On the Q litters first birthday the breeder sent out acomplishments and pictures.

It was fun getting pictures of Quins litermates. They are in wiscoinsin, Indiana, Minnesota and California.

As a breeder, this is a topic close to my heart. I'm on my way offline right now but will add my thoughts tomorrow.

My dog's breeder has been very involved; from the moment I contacted her about getting a puppy to now 9 years later. She interviewed me and had me fill out a questionaire about what I was looking for in a dog, my experience, spouse, children etc and contacted me when a litter she bred produced two pups she felt would be a good match. She did let me decide between the two.

She explained why she had chosen to breed his mother and father what her aim was and what each brought to the plate to achieve that goal. Her long term goal was to produce service dogs which she has achieved. 3 dogs from her last two litters have been placed in homes as service dogs for autistic children. She still keeps me up to date what is going on with her kennel.

She has sent me health surveys to report any problems with health and temperment as well as a cheek swab test to send to UC Davis to check for Ivermectin issues and has tracked these in a White Shepherd's Genetics project.

http://www.wsgenetics.info/

I believe the health and temperment survey was made available to all purchasers of her puppies. At purchae I also received a 4 generation pedigree which she went over with me explaining each dog's accomplishments as well as age and cause of death of any of the dogs who had passed on.

She actually called my vet to discuss a diagnosis of OCD which was diagnosed after he had sustained an injury; to determine if it was a result of the injury or genetically induced.

I hear from her at least annually and she always inquires about the welfare of the dog. I don't know how many other people have been responsive to her requests for info but following the genetics project she has collected a lot of info about her progeny.

I would get another puppy from her in a heart beat!!

I love keeping in touch with my puppies and their owners. I keep in touch with most of them via my own e-mail "chat" list from yahoogroups. There we can all talk about our puppies, share experiences, pictures, updates, stories, and questions/answers about "anything". Those that don't use internet or who don't choose to be on the "e-pups list" I contact periodically or they contact me once in a while with updates and pictures. Often I put the comments about the pups on my website's testimonial pages. I also have a "honor roll" page on my website for any eichenluft pup who has accomplished something - title or certification or accolade. I feel the main reward for me for breeding is keeping in touch and sharing the lives of the dogs as much as possible.

I also have a yearly "e-pup" party and reunion - this will be the 4th year. A 3-day weekend in the summer, where people come with their e-pups from local and long-distances - some even fly to get here! We have a great time getting to know each other and welcoming the new pups and owners from the previous year. We have sheep and do herding-instinct testing, agility, obedience, and protection demos and training sessions and run-throughs, SAR, detection and police demos with dogs/handlers that are working K9s from my program - games and races and swimming for dogs and humans in my in-ground pool. Shade and chairs and lots of great food in great company. People interested in my dogs can come and meet many from different bloodlines and litters - talk to the owners and get a "feel" of what my dogs have to offer. Owners can meet people they have only met on the internet, see littermates and meet the parents - it's something that I think more breeders should do.

molly
Eichenluft Working German Shepherds
http://workinggermanshepherd.com

We are very small and keep so closely in touch with puppy owners (before with screening and after the sale) that we end up making new friends. It's neat to see what our pups are doing .

There are lots of ways to track pups and keep an eye on progeny. Some get held back for breeding; some get "sold" on breeders contracts, so those dogs are still very much in the immediate watch. Titles can be tracked through registration numbers. Most of the time though, it's emails from puppy owners that are the best/most informative. I LOVE hearing about how our 'babies' are doing! I am grateful to the owners for keeping me filled in and enjoy reading every email. We also encourage people to ask questions at any time about anything, and will always take a dog back for any reason, though none have come back to date.

I miss puppies....it's been awhile.

 Quote:

To breeders...how do you (or, do you) track your progeny? What do you ask about, if you do? If you don't, what are the reasons?

Very good question.

I email every month or so if I haven't heard from them. I also offer free training with the purchase of any dog and that has been wonderful. I have a small discussion board that a lot of my owners belong to.

If someone has kind of lost contact with me I will start off by asking general questions, how's everything doing, how is the dog doing in training and go from there.

If there are any problems I want to know. Offering training has been wonderful for some of my pet homes, I am able to see a problem and take care of it right away. For my sport homes it gives them another chance to train and socilize.

I have a young breeding program, but I think so far so good. Of course the true test will be a few years down the road.

 Quote: leih merigian

To owners/handlers...have your breeders ever contacted you to obtain information about your pup as it developed, and if so, did this continue for the life of the dog? (If the dog is still with you, has it continued as long as you've had the dog?)

No one has ever contacted me. They do encourage updates from owners and have a section on their web site that is updated regularly with letters, emails, and pictures sent in by owners. But it's all good news. I doubt very much they would post the good AND not-so-good news about True.

I think my dog is one a breeder would want to know about. The one that ought to (I would hope) have a breeder taking another look at their program. I accept HD can randomly occur...but when you add allergies and ectropian, three genetic problems in one pup, that *seems* to me to be a red flag that something is wrong.

And maybe I'm wrong for feeling the way I do? I've struggled a lot with that, not wanting to condemn anyone unfairly. I don't know anything about breeding and, apparently, it's not a concern for my breeder because True's sire and dam have continued to produce litters. Maybe he's the one and only oddball?

I am happy to be reminded that there are breeders like Molly, Cindy, and Kristel...and all the others on this forum....who keep in touch with owners and care so much about the dogs they bring into the world.

Your post is a little eerie, Leih...I mentioned this very thing (breeder follow up)in PM a few hours before you posted.

Keeping track of puppies from my breeding program has become a lot easier since the internet, that's for sure. I used to rely on phone calls and letters, and let's face it.... that gets really time consuming for most of us so I found the contact would kind of fade away as time went by (understandably)

I would say most of my puppy people keep in touch regularly via email, complete with updated photos. I have so many folders of photos in my documents, it's overwhelming at times. I'd love to be able to focus my time into just organizing it all and putting it in an archive online so I have access to it.

I will say that as a breeder, the thorn in my side are the minute percentage of people who either drop off the face of the earth and I never hear from them again OR the puppy buyer who isn't up front with me about what's going on with the dog. Whether people overestimate their ability when choosing one of my dogs, or I make the wrong match I'll never know but I lose sleep at night worrying about where these pups may end up.

I offer free videos, lifetime tech support and will always take back a dog from my program if I can. If not, I will assist with placement of the dog. Nothing ticks me off more than finding out someone rehomed one of my dogs without contacting me about it first. I typically have people sign a contract that gives me first right of refusal, but the last couple of litters I didn't and I have had this happen. I'm not actually sure how enforceable the contract really is anyway, but you can bet if I breed anymore there will be a very detailed clause covering this.

I'm actually in the process of writing an article about HOW TO CHOOSE A PUPPY CUSTOMER, and I will include my good and not so experiences. If I can save one breeder from making a placement they later regret, it will all be worthwhile.(there are signs to look for, but they are often missed until it's too late) Everyone talks about how to pick a pup and a breeder, but the puppy buyer is a huge part of the equation! They can make or break a dog.

It's unfortunate that few not so great experiences I've had cast a shadow on the dozens of really wonderful people I've met since I started breeding dogs back in 1989. I've forged some great relationships with people I've met through my dogs and pups, and I feel very fortunate to call many of those folks friends.

With all that said, I wish all my puppy customers were as conscientious as Leih! Many of them are, but she's the kind of person a breeder loves to place a dog with... too bad her breeder doesn't seem to appreciate it.

I'm really looking forward to your article about choosing puppy customer. It's so wonderful that you're willing to share that experience. That is the part I agonize about more than anything, and the part the keeps us small. I'm so afraid of thinking about one of our puppies ever ending up mistreated or in a shelter...*shudder* that I keep the numbers small so I can keep track of what's going on.

I really feel like we breed more for ourselves, and only sell puppies because we can't keep them all. Though I feel we've been successful to this point, I would love to have more insight and confidence in this area. I can't wait to read the article!