I question if prey drive is the building block for protection work, Why is it that if a dog only has prey drive he may not protect the handler?

This may sound open and shut to some, and I can see the problem, but a moving person is a moving person, going away or coming toward the handler,isn't. There is a stress factor, but to a dog that appears strong in prey drive dog, would it matter.

Another question, Is this training exercise a good test that the dog has the ability to defend the handler?

It starts with the decoy hiding down wind from the dog team, the dog is alerted by smell that there maybe trouble ahead. When the decoy comes out and the dog successful enagages or lunges toward the decoy. Should a bite always be given here? To releive stress? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This questions reflects a complete and total misunderstanding of protection training. You have been on this board long enough that you should have learned a little more than this question reflects. I suggest that you purchase a few of the basic training videos that I have produced and study them. The First Steps of Bite Training, the First Steps of Defense ect ect ect.

while I agree that prey drive is the building block for protection training, I have known dogs without prey drive that would do protection work. Not sport type work, but I wouldn't walk into the handler's home!

I trained a Czech dog like this for a wealthy business man. The dog would not work thru prey at all, no play, no prey but once I made a bond with this dog he would not let anyone near me.. transferrring the dog over to the new handler took several weeks and the dog being muzzled at all times when he was around anyone but me.......

did this dog have sound temperament? NO! But he would was strong in his insecurity and would do protection work... Just my experience.

I think this is called a " Junkyard Dog", no training required. The type of animal that gives its breed a bad name and dog trainer's too.

No Alan,
Actually this dog was a ZVV3 dog from the Czech republic.....did ok obedience, very correct and would lay quietly at my feet when under command. The man that purchased this dog wanted a non-social controllable animal as he carries large amoutnts of money and lives in a repressed part of the world.......

i have seen junkyard dogs and this dog was certainly not one of those!

The dog also had a conformation rating -- I hardly think a junkyard dog would have one of those....... :rolleyes:

this dog just happened to be one of those Czech dogs that VC and so many of the folks on the board fancy! I personally loved this dog and I only had him to brush up the obedience and bitework. The original thread was about prey needed in Protection.......yes, it's desired but not necessary for handler protection. He would have been a crappy sport dog but fit the bill perfectly for what this gentleman wanted.

Is making a dog nuts about a sleeve the only ACCEPTED way to train a dog to bite? Just curious. Thanks.

We could use your bare arm. Or a bite suit! How would you do it?

Prey drive is the proper way to train protection work. I believe defense first is not right...the dog needs proper bite development and a stress release. Defense later when the dog is mature enough is fine.

Big Ed I'm waiting for you to put those tapes on DVD, I skipped over buying them thinking they were too basic. But I missed some good stuff in those begining tapes.

Now I disagree with the question not having merit, there are so many variables in dog training it makes you question when and why, because as the talented Cindy Easton mentioned there are dogs that can protect the handler without prey drive.

I understand that with continued training a prey dog may build handler protection skills. It may sound irrational if this was a perfect world but there are a lot of variables that makes the standard theroy P + D = handler protection, work but there are other variables like sometimes it X + D = hp or x?+y? = hp (junk yard dog).

I'm asking for clarfication from expert point of view, which is examing past the obvious. As mentioned by one of the resident experts, P + D = hp maybe the best way but is not the only way to get a dog to protect its handler.

I've learned a lot here, but when I find something that don't add up, I question it, and there is not a better place then here. Where there are so many know it all (I'm being snide I meant dog experts).

No matter how simple it makes me sound I want to know. As you notice I'm not trying to win the most intelligent dog person award. Don't throw me off the board for trying to resolve my ignorance (not knowing).

Don,
Where are you located? Perhaps we here could hook you up with an experienced trainer near you that could help you see what the differences are.

If you don't have someone close to you, perhaps have you and your training group bring in a trainer who can help you get started.

Just a thought...