On another thread I made this comment that Mara responded to:

 Quote: mara jessup

 Quote: doug alcorn

Right now I think I'd be happy to work on stronger OB with faster compliance for sit, down, come and a good stay. If I could get a good down away and fetch this by this winter that'd be ideal.

Just remember - baby steps! She is still a pup and they have short attention spans. If you keep working consistently with her, I'm sure you'll notice a change by the time she is a year old.

Do you think these training objectives are too aggressive? I honestly have no idea. I know where I am at about 6 months and I think "I've got 6 more months to hit those goals."

"Back in the old days" they used to say not to even start OB training on puppies at all. Of course, we know that positive training with markers can be started very, very early with puppies. I watch Ingrid's videos with Frost and I'm amazed at how much they've accomplished together in a relatively short period of time. I know Ingrid is a very experienced dog trainer, but it's still a testament to what can be accomplished with puppies.

I am not an experienced dog trainer. Realistically, this is my first dog that I've ever really tried to train. I suffer from common newbie problems: bad timing marking, not knowing how to split or chain exercises, not doing training frequently or consistently enough or too long per session.

But still it seems like I should be able (as a newbie) to train a smart dog the basics of obedience in a year: sit, down, stand, stay, come, out, leave it and some type of nice walking (as opposed to a formal heel). I'd say that right now she has a pretty good sit and an ok down. What I mean is she can do those things, but it takes her a while to decide she will. I think that delay in compliance is mainly due to my inconsistency in training (or frequency). She has a pretty good recall, but it could be better of course. I try to avoid situations where recall is required other than simple situations that are easy for her to comply with.

I guess when I'm trying to decide which of Ed's DVDs to get next Basic Obedience is pretty high up there. It seems like that one, with specifics on specific exercises, would be the one most likely to help me meet my goals for the next 6 months.

Speaking of baby steps, what kind of baby steps are we talking about? Like one or two 5 minute sessions a day or two to three 10 minute sessions a day? I know this is probably dog dependent, but I'm looking for a guideline for what I should be trying to do.

I like to do as many 2-5 minute sessions as I can cram into a day with Yote our older pup, the other two I try to do ten minutes a day and then longer when I get a chance.

I think shorter duration and more frequency works better for young or very flighty dogs.

I would only work on 1 command at a time. I would not move on to another until that one is quick & reliable & solid(90% or 9 out of 10 times) If she is taking time to 'decide' if she will comply...up the reward in order to enlist greater compliance. Keep it fun for her. Maybe use bits of cheese or hotdog if you are using store bought treats. Or change up the treats to keep it interesting. All my pups liked the zukes treats & hot dogs. Some dogs(like my female) don't do well with dairy food, so I didn't use cheese. But many do. I would keep the 'sessions' short. I used to do 5-6 times a day. Time would be from 1-5 min or longer, depending on the age of the pup. At 6 months, depending on the dog, I would do 5 -7 min. It is always better to do more short training sessions then to do longer sessions less times. Pups have VERY short attention spans & to push too hard just tires them out & they loose focus & consequently, they learn less in those sessions. You have your whole dogs life to train...don't rush & skip steps, you will pay the price for that down the road. She doesn't have to know it all in a year. Take your time.

Doug, if you can swing it, get the Basic Obedience and the new one (Michael Ellis Training w/ Food)

I have only watched the first 45 minutes or so (it's a 3 hour dvd, I think) and already I can see several changes I can make that will help me as a trainer to improve Chula's obedience.
I know you feel that you are having issues with Suzzie's drive, and I think this DVD will help you to increase her enthusiasm for training...

Lynne, if you had to recommend one to me which would it be? Is the BO DVD really mostly recipes for specific exercises? How much of this specifics on exercises is there in the Ellis DVD? I'm really tempted by the Ellis DVD given the free videos I've watched. His style is very similar to what I already know about marker/positive training but seems much better refined. I know I could learn a ton from this extended DVD but I'm also looking for specifics of what I need to be doing in my training sessions as well as the theory/philosophy of what I'm supposed to be doing.

The Michael Ellis dvd (what I've seen so far) really focuses on how you can influence your dog's focus and enthusiasm. He describes and shows specific things that you can do to bring out the best in your dog.

He does this with marker training, of course, but he talks about how to deliver the food to develop drive in the dog (I think he calls it 'engagement'), what size food to use,and how to put movement in the food to engage the dog (similar to what you would do w/ a toy). Ed also gives a nice narration to set up each segment of the video so that you know what the goal is of that particular portion of the DVD.

I've only watched about 45 minutes of it, as I mentioned. I believe he covers the basics of how to teach the sit, down, stand and recall, but it comes later in the DVD.

I hate to recommend one over the other, but I think in your situation the Ellis dvd might offer insight into what you are seeking from your dog.

I saw this thread but wanted to get your dog's whole story about the drive and all. I have to agree with everyone else on slowing down just a little bit. This isn't to say everything you want isn't possible in the 1st year, but if you did that, your dog wouldn't have time to be a puppy. I read and just a little while ago commented on your other post and it seems we have similar ideas and somewhat similar dogs even though Im a rottweiler guy.

Our girls are different in the drive category as I am having a hard time finding an off switch. No matter how much exercise, both mental and physical, she will keep going. And the worse part is she has perfected the power nap so it is no easy task to live with. After this, I don't know how some of you GSDs, Malinois, Dutch Shephards, etc. owners deal with this day in and day out with multiple dogs. With this said though, I have never had more fun with a dog than with Vienna.

But as for obedience, I have been using the 5 minute sessions. If I go much longer than this, she will get bored so I have to keep training short. I have only trained her formally in sit and down, but even so I have done no real position work. sHe knows other commands, but I haven't done them formally so I don't count them. But as for her sits and downs, she does them really fast because I decided to focus on them. I do it as many times as I remember in the day which ends up being probably 6-10 times a day. I think it is better to fine tune one technique before doing another. All in all, find what works best for your girl though.

Lynne, I did have a question for you as you seem to be talking about the Michael Ellis dvd. I have been marker training with Vienna since I've had her. Like I said, but will say again if missed, she is not too food motivated but more so toy motivated. I am more interested in the teaching of commands for my girl than anything else. Is it those four you listed that are the only ones found in the dvd? I haven't tought stand but from today's video and prior knowledge figured out how it is trained and how it is trained in the video. And the recall was in another short clip. I have been going back and forth on this dvd, but would like to learn more about positions and commands. Would this dvd work? Any other recommendations? I will be getting this dvd within the next few weeks but would like to get a heads up if this is more review than anything else. I am really looking forward to his next video about using a tug as that is more the route I need to go with this girl. Thank you.

-Lamarr