Y'all:

I'm having a cold beer as I type, and keeping a paper towel on my thumb to stem the bleeding. And I need some help.

I introduced Duke in my "Blanket Statement" post a couple days ago.

Today: Woke up ~ 0630. Let both dogs out of the crates, went for a 20 minute walk to pee, poop, etc. Back to the house, where the dogs ate breakfast (bowls side by side, about 12 inches apart, I supervise, and BOTH dogs are required to finish the meal and walk away.) After breakfast, a longer, faster walk, about 45 minutes. I put them back in the crate, go to work. Lunch time, I come home (the joy of working 3 miles from home) and we do another 30 minute walk. Back to the crates, I go back to work. Come home ~ 1630 hours, we do a short walk of 20 minutes, and we go back to the apartment for some basic obedience: Sit, Down, Up, Stay, Come, etc. For the correct action, each dog gets a piece of boiled chicken as a reward (Casey doesn't need it, because she has basic commands down COLD, but I didn't want to show favoritism to one dog.)

FYI, We do walks as prescribed: I'm in front, no pulling on the leash, my pace, dogs at my side, etc. Both dogs are in the crates unless I am in the room to supervise. Both dogs are treated equally, and I show no favoritism. Pack structure, etc etc etc. Maybe I'm not doing it "good enough" but I'm trying to follow every thing I've read about pack structure and mentality.

Duke gets his piece of chicken for a DOWN, then I give a piece to Casey, and Duke goes for it. Game is on, Duke has his sights fixed on her, I get Duke on the scruff, and promptly plunk his canine self on the ground.

In about 15 seconds, I feel his body relax under me, his breathing relax, the eyes aren't as wide, etc. Basically, he's over it, I'm over it, and Casey is giving me that look: "Boys are silly."

The only blood is my thumb... he got me lightly, no stitches needed.

So....

A couple things:

1. Can this sort of object-aggression be fixed? He seems to have a VERY high prey drive. I've seen him tense up and be ready to bolt after rabbits, pigeons, rolling tennis balls, and now tossed pieces of chicken. I've read many threads about how to *increase* prey drive, but few on how to *reduce* it. I've a prong that would fit, but am not sure if this would be a good idea, though I'm all ears for advice.

2. Any suggestions for quality trainers/canine behavior folks in the metro Denver area? I'll take those in a private message in keeping with the rules of this forum.

3. Given his quality traits, he's got a hell of a lot of potential to be a good dog. High energy, attentive to handler (unless there are rabbits, pigeons, rolling tennis balls, or tossed pieces of chicken present), smart, confident, etc., he'd be a good dog for a single dog house with a good handler. Anyone in the metro Denver area fit this bill? Kim, my friend and his regular owner, is even more fearful knowing that he bit me, and isn't sure she can take him back.

The things I get into when I volunteer to help a pal... sheesh.

Again, as always, I can't thank you enough for your wisdom. To think: Two days ago, a blanket was my biggest concern. *sigh*

I think that you are doing a lot right.

How much exercise? Any fetch, etc.?

Did he actually bite you, or did your thumb get in the way of a chicken-grab? Just trying to have all the facts straight.

I can say right now, though, that I would not feed them their meals 12 inches from each other, even under supervision. That's kind of over-the-top both for the non-possessive dog as well as the one who lusts after the other one's food.

I do feed the dogs in the same room with me policing the meal, but I wouldn't make any of them eat right on top of any other one.

what's been working for me and my two über Hündin is to have the obedience wired tight, and reward quckley and equaly. It makes for a good show, sycnronized dogs in motion. Imho dogs have a sense of fairness, "Hey she got playtime and a treat but I didn't" or "I'm senior, I go first, it's in the union contract"

Anytime I can't directly watch them they are in crates or kennels.

another thing that helps is LOTS of excercise mental an physical. its extra work but rehomeing might be tough today

 Quote: dennis jones

... It makes for a good show, sycnronized dogs in motion.

I like that. Like those synchronized swim teams!

If I am doing marker work (with food) with one dog, the other dogs are not right beside him. That is, they are plunked several feet away, maybe watching enviously and praying "pick me, pick me," but not close enough to go crazy from food-lust.

 Quote: connie sutherland

I think that you are doing a lot right.

How much exercise? Any fetch, etc.?

Did he actually bite you, or did your thumb get in the way of a chicken-grab? Just trying to have all the facts straight.

My question exactly Connie; going for the chicken or the other dog; your description of "game is on" gives me the impression Casey was under attack or potential attack doesn't read handler aggression or even object aggression.....food is a life or death commodity and I think you are doing a lot of things right but are moving too fast...

Other than this incident has anything else happened with you that makes you think he needs to be rehomed? And believe me I understand if after being bitten that is your thought process I'm just curious if there is more to the story that has you thinking that way.

Connie wrote: "I think that you are doing a lot right."

Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate that more than I can express in words.

Connie also wrote: "How much exercise? Any fetch, etc.? Did he actually bite you, or did your thumb get in the way of a chicken-grab? Just trying to have all the facts straight."

Exercise now consists of long, brisk walks. I can load him up with a backpack and some weight, if that will be of benefit. Sadly, my bicycle has a flat tire and I can't run (long story), so there's no biking or running in our future. 'Lo, how I'd like to get him and Casey running beside my mountain bike on some of the local trails. Alas, though, 'tis not to be.

He turned to my hand as I was grabbing for his scruff/neck to break up the fight. Right about the time his teeth hit flesh, I jerked my hand back and got a better grip, alpha-rolled him (I know, I know... I was reacting faster than I was thinking at this point) and that was the end of it. That's the amazing thing to me... he's calm one microsecond, going for the kill the next microsecond, and over it the third microsecond. Yeah, dogs live in the moment, all that. Still, it's amazing to see it, rather than just read about it.

Dennis wrote: "what's been working for me and my two über Hündin is to have the obedience wired tight, and reward quckley and equaly."

Yes, sir, I'm trying to do that as well. The funny thing is that Duke has figured out that when we're on a walk and I say "Stop!", he's to stop walking and sit down, muy pronto. And he figured this out in a day. One DAY! Casey has always done it, but I treat 'em both anyway. They also both stay seated until I give the "Walk" command. It's like he's a damn smart dog, willing to learn, but wants to be #2, if not #1.

Shelia wrote: "My question exactly Connie; going for the chicken or the other dog; your description of "game is on" gives me the impression Casey was under attack or potential attack doesn't read handler aggression or even object aggression.....food is a life or death commodity and I think you are doing a lot of things right but are moving too fast..."


He was going for the chicken, ma'am, and Casey was going for it as well, thus the fight. Maybe I screwed up, tossing the chicken wrong, or or moving too fast (a distinct possibility, I admit.) Time to slow my pace, I suppose.

Shelia wrote: "Other than this incident has anything else happened with you that makes you think he needs to be rehomed? And believe me I understand if after being bitten that is your thought process I'm just curious if there is more to the story that has you thinking that way."

Really, my biggest concern is that on Saturday, he's going back to my friend Kim, who simply is not capable of physically controlling him. Because of that, she has this lingering doubt/fear in her mind, and THAT makes her incapable of psychologically controlling him. I know this, she knows this, and we're both realistic to know that unless he can be broken of this sporadic dog-on-dog aggression, he's going to be put down.

He really does have a great deal of potential. If I didn't have Casey, I'd keep him. The fact is that I travel so much for work, I can't. Asking a buddy to watch a calm, obedient dog (Casey) while I'm gone is one thing. Asking a buddy to watch Casey *and* a dog-aggressive dog is another thing entirely.

 Quote: Jeff Brosius

and we're both realistic to know that unless he can be broken of this sporadic dog-on-dog aggression, he's going to be put down.

Jeff,
I think I missed something. Other than this incident with Casey involving food; when else has he displayed dog aggression? What were the situations and triggers?

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

 Quote: Jeff Brosius

and we're both realistic to know that unless he can be broken of this sporadic dog-on-dog aggression, he's going to be put down.

Jeff,
I think I missed something. Other than this incident with Casey involving food; when else has he displayed dog aggression? What were the situations and triggers?

Kim (my friend who rescued Duke from the local shelter) stated he did it once over a bone: Apparently, her other dog came close to Duke while he had a bone, and he turned on the other dog. I wasn't there, can't speak to details. My mistake for not mentioning this before. Mea culpa, ma'am.

Duke did lunge at Casey once while I was tossing a tennis ball to Casey. Because I don't have a full command of recall with Duke (yet), I did not let him off the leash during this... Fenced in area, I threw the ball for Casey to fetch (her FAVORITE!) and as she brought it back, she dropped the ball at my feet as she has been taught. Duke pulled towards the ball, Casey went to grab it back while he pulled, and suddenly he's lunging towards Casey. A quick correction by me, and as with this last incident, once the correction was made, that was that. (Make sense? Not sure I explained it well.... third beer of the night and all that.)

I also think you are doing a lot of things right.

I have a foster dog that was a bit like this. I honestly have to say in his case, a lot of it was caused by anxiety and stress due to the "being in a new home" syndrome. Some dogs take longer to adjust than others.

He could just be a bit unsettled. It sounds like you are teaching him the rules (NO attacking Casey will be tolerated) but it may take a few times, unfortunately, to sink in.

I think it would help if you also spend some one on one time with Duke doing some positive marker work (without the other dog present). This will help him trust you, build a bond (whatever is possible in a few days) and sort of set an upbeat, positive tone between the two of you. (at the very least, it can't hurt).

 Quote: angela burrell

He could just be a bit unsettled. It sounds like you are teaching him the rules (NO attacking Casey will be tolerated) but it may take a few times, unfortunately, to sink in.

I think it would help if you also spend some one on one time with Duke doing some positive marker work (without the other dog present). This will help him trust you, build a bond (whatever is possible in a few days) and sort of set an upbeat, positive tone between the two of you. (at the very least, it can't hurt).

I agree with Angela and would definitely give this guy some time in his new digs, combined with dedicated OB and bonding sessions to reinforce his position in the pack (that is, under YOU) and make him feel more secure. Keep in mind though that there are some dogs that just don't ever settle into the "sharing" mentality, and for those individuals it's just a matter of awareness and management - ie, religiously avoiding any situation that could cause a resource guarding turned dog aggression response. Feed a safe distance from other dogs, treat individually - and DON'T treat another dog within striking distance, etc. If he never has the opportunity to feel slighted, or in close competition in some way, his drives won't kick in.

He sounds like a great dog who just needs a very confident, consistent and (dog) educated owner. At the same time that you're working with Duke as a favor to your friend, I'd set up some training sessions with HER included, so that she gets a feel for how to handle him too. You can start to instill some good behavior in him with your one on one work, but this type of dog will only succeed if his actual owner is ready and prepared to pick up the reins when you're through.

~Natalya