As I've posted here before, I've been working with my GSD Maya with her being reactive to other dogs. I have a few specific training questions that I've been pondering over through this process:

Even in this dog town, there are times on walks we see zero canines. There are places where I'm pretty sure we can bump into dogs--dog parks, the vet, doggy day care. If going to one of these doggy hot zones, how long should the training sessions go for?

I've been told to be purely positive with Maya when she sees another dog, even when she is barking and so on. Always treats and happy talking. There are times, however, when she seems to be simply acting like a snot. For example, there is a sweet Doberman in our agility class that she has gotten grumbly with. The dog can be sitting and looking at its owner, and Maya will decide to growl and give a bark for what seems like no reason. Is this a time when it is okay to tell her no?

Maya is inconsistent in her reactions to other dogs. We passed a dog on a trail the other day that she had zero reaction to. I was amazed! Same hike had her barking like crazy at a dog 20 minutes later. I have yet to figure this out, but one thing I've wondered about is movement. Sometimes when I spot a dog, I'll stop and try to create space for her, having her sit while I work with her. Is it better to just keep on moving? Could sitting and waiting for the dog to pass by be upping the anxiety?

Finally, I've been thinking about teaching Maya a cue for when a dog is approaching. Sometimes I can see the dog before she sniffs it out. My thought is that teaching her a cue could take away the element of surprise which usually causes more of a reaction. I can also this cue backfiring as she just has early warning about an "enemy" approaching. Has anyone else incorporated a cue for when a dog is spotted into their reactivity training?

Thank you for any tips with this. I've actually had more than one dream where Maya and I pass by a bunch of dogs with no reaction from her. I think about this all the time, and everyone has opinions that they are willing to share!

Sometimes the big difference is the very calm and balanced demeanor of the other dog. For example, my reactive dog who is now 90% better does not get anywhere near the response from the nut-dog who fence-fights around the corner. It's my dog, I am quite sure, who now marches on by with no attention paid to the neighbor dog, causing the difference in the other dog.

What have you been doing in the form of desensitizing your dog? What is it that you do on the outskirts of the doggy hot-zones and how close are you able to get to, say, dogs who are leashed and not barking at your dog?

Connie--thanks for your reply. The energy thing is interesting. For all her barking, most dogs don't seem to really care. I think they can sense it's a bluff.

Two dog trainers have told me somewhat different things. One idea is to have the dog do something when in the presence of another dog, like sit and look at you. Another dog trainer, however, says let the dog do whatever, even if its barking, and mark with verbal yes when she is looking at the dog and treat. Her point is that the dog should think the reward comes from being around another dog, not because of following a command like "look," etc. I've been doing more of just marking when she looks at the dog and treating. She catches on after one or two times and will quickly look back and forth. Thoughts?

Outside the doggie day care, we just walk around the block, hoping a dog will pop out. Not too much luck at the dog park--I think it's too much for her right now, even though I've tried to keep a good distance.

Her comfort zone is not standard, but after our walk tonight, we sat in my front yard just hoping to have more people pass by. She was fine with dogs walking on the other side of the street. We were probably only 10 feet away from the dog she didn't care about at all when we went on our hike last weekend.

I didn't use any treats tonight on our walk since her stomach is upset. I did take along a newly purchased fleece tug. I tried out telling her no for barking, and sounded like an goof with really laying on the praise when she didn't. I rewarded once we got past the dogs with the tug. I think I'll continue trying with the tug--she is definitely more toy motivated than food motivated.

 Quote: carolyn pinkerto

.... Two dog trainers have told me somewhat different things. One idea is to have the dog do something when in the presence of another dog, like sit and look at you. Another dog trainer, however, says let the dog do whatever, even if its barking, and mark with verbal yes when she is looking at the dog and treat. Her point is that the dog should think the reward comes from being around another dog, not because of following a command like "look," etc.

That's second trainer's suggestion is the opposite of what I want. I want my dogs to ignore other dogs. I want them to focus on me, to do whatever their business is at that moment (based on me), and not to let the dogs passing by affect them in any way. The second trainer's idea would be completely at odds with what I want.

I also don't want my dogs to "think the reward comes from being around another dog" because being around other dogs isn't their goal. It's not what I want them to be seeking out at all.

I'm curious about what others think about that.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I'm curious about what others think about that.

I agree. I want the dog's attention on me and everything else is just background noise. With that being said; if my dog remained calm while in the company of another dog but maybe not being focused on me I would definitely reward the calmness.

Carolyn as far as moving or staying still to let another dog pass; I would do what you have the most success with. To get to my favorite hiking trails, I need to cross through the parking lot which is filled with untrained dogs and I find it easier to just plow through them with my dog at my side with no time for sniffing, eye contact etc. However on a narrow trail I pull to the side and let the other dog pass.

Train the one you have the most success with first and then add the second option when the first is solid.

 Quote: carolyn pinkerto

Connie--thanks for your reply.
Two dog trainers have told me somewhat different things. One idea is to have the dog do something when in the presence of another dog, like sit and look at you. Another dog trainer, however, says let the dog do whatever, even if its barking, and mark with verbal yes when she is looking at the dog and treat. Her point is that the dog should think the reward comes from being around another dog, not because of following a command like "look," etc. I've been doing more of just marking when she looks at the dog and treating. She catches on after one or two times and will quickly look back and forth. Thoughts?

The latter method is easy to mess up for someone inexperienced. You never want to treat when the dog has even the slightest body language of aggression, as that will tell her that is what you want. It take experience to learn the more subtle signs of aggression. For example, tension could be a sign of aggression, or just a sign of anticipation. Can you tell the difference? For someone with limited experience, the former advice is much safer.

 Quote: carolyn pinkerto

Outside the doggie day care, we just walk around the block, hoping a dog will pop out. Not too much luck at the dog park--I think it's too much for her right now, even though I've tried to keep a good distance.

Instead of simply looking for chance oportunities, can you set up some training/desensitization sessions with a friend with a dog that can be controlled. This way you can not only get more practice, but can controll as many of the aspects as possible. Distance. Other dog moving toward, parallel, etc. Other dog stationary. Other dog moving fast. Other dog playing. Start with the less stimulating, and at a distance just beyond your dogs reactive point, and gradually increase the pressure.

Good that you passed on going to the dog park. The dog park is not a good choice, especially now.

 Quote: carolyn pinkerto

I didn't use any treats tonight on our walk since her stomach is upset. I did take along a newly purchased fleece tug. I tried out telling her no for barking, and sounded like an goof with really laying on the praise when she didn't. I rewarded once we got past the dogs with the tug. I think I'll continue trying with the tug--she is definitely more toy motivated than food motivated.

This redirecting is better than treating for seeing another dog. Good luck!

i have been taught to treat when my dogs look at other dogs too. i kind of like this method, because to me it is unrealistic to think my dog will ignore another dog completely. i kind of do a combination of both though, which I am not sure is helping or hurting us. If we are walking, in movement, and she look at another dog, I will click and throw treats on the ground while we are walking. Other times though, if a dog is too close or she seems like she is not responding to the treat as well, I will get between her and the dog and pull her into a sit and make her "watch". both of these methods seem to work okay. our success with this is off and on though. She can do okay, if the dog is on the other side of the street, but we still can't pass a dog down the same sidewalk.

in regards to movement etc, if another dog is keeping their activitiy low key, we have a better chance of her not reacting. dogs that are running, or lunging on a leash, or jumping around, forget it.

 Quote: jenn verrier

i have been taught to treat when my dogs look at other dogs too. i kind of like this method, because to me it is unrealistic to think my dog will ignore another dog completely. i kind of do a combination of both though, which I am not sure is helping or hurting us. If we are walking, in movement, and she look at another dog, I will click and throw treats on the ground while we are walking. Other times though, if a dog is too close or she seems like she is not responding to the treat as well, I will get between her and the dog and pull her into a sit and make her "watch". both of these methods seem to work okay. our success with this is off and on though. She can do okay, if the dog is on the other side of the street, but we still can't pass a dog down the same sidewalk.

in regards to movement etc, if another dog is keeping their activitiy low key, we have a better chance of her not reacting. dogs that are running, or lunging on a leash, or jumping around, forget it.

I'm not sure this is the best method for you, Jenn, if this is the same dog with dominant tendencies you mentioned in another post. I don't think I'd want to reward the dog for attention to other dogs when the result is as you describe. I also suspect that the combination isn't serving you well. JMO. Others will have better suggestions, too.

PS
I'd probably be working on focus exercises with the dog, far enough away from other dogs that she is non-reactive. And I'd be avoiding lunging jumping dogs close to my dog, like the plague, while I was continuing with this work.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/18/2009 10:25 AM)
Edit reason: ps

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: jenn verrier

i have been taught to treat when my dogs look at other dogs too. i kind of like this method, because to me it is unrealistic to think my dog will ignore another dog completely. i kind of do a combination of both though, which I am not sure is helping or hurting us. If we are walking, in movement, and she look at another dog, I will click and throw treats on the ground while we are walking. Other times though, if a dog is too close or she seems like she is not responding to the treat as well, I will get between her and the dog and pull her into a sit and make her "watch". both of these methods seem to work okay. our success with this is off and on though. She can do okay, if the dog is on the other side of the street, but we still can't pass a dog down the same sidewalk.

in regards to movement etc, if another dog is keeping their activitiy low key, we have a better chance of her not reacting. dogs that are running, or lunging on a leash, or jumping around, forget it.

I'm not sure this is the best method for you, Jenn, if this is the same dog with dominant tendencies you mentioned in another post. I don't think I'd want to reward the dog for attention to other dogs when the result is as you describe. I also suspect that the combination isn't serving you well. JMO. Others will have better suggestions, too.

PS
I'd probably be working on focus exercises with the dog, far enough away from other dogs that she is non-reactive. And I'd be avoiding lunging jumping dogs close to my dog, like the plague, while I was continuing with this work.

Hey connie

Yea I understand how it can be seen that I am rewarding her for her behavior, but what I was taught, was that I am trying to show her that having dogs around is actually a good thing, and that she is behaving by looking at them and not reacting.

She used to be and is still somewhat reactive to motorcycles and scooters as well. I used this method with her, and when we see one she almost immediately looks to me for a treat, and will do a nice sit. So for instance, we spot a motorcycle zoom by (every now and then she will still lunge at it), but then look back at me for a treat and sit and wait for it. Ultimately, this is exactly what I want to happen when she sees dogs too.

I definitely keep our distance from other dogs still. But what I will do is, if she seems non-reactive enough, is sit with her, with her leash held close, and treat her while she is looking at the dog, then we move a little closer, and do it again, then move a little closer. I was actually able to do this successfully with the trainers dogs, and another random dog on the street, and have her GREET them as we got close enough. I do avoid any high activity dogs like the plague too! The ones we were able to get close enough to, were just basically sitting like statues. lol