Being new to the forum, but reading the forum for quite a while I respect your opinions.

We have 4 bouviers (and one recently adopted stray greyhound that is an x-racer-but he is for another topic later) Anyway...we have an almost 2-year old female Bouvier that we have absolutely gone the gambit on trying to find a "cure" for her front paw licking. It started after her 1st heat cycle at 4 months old. At that time she ended up with a yeast infection and was put on antibiotic etc. She was switched to a raw diet about 6 months ago (raw chicken, venison, etc).

We have not taken her to a derm vet yet because I am rather skeptical about it. We bounce around with opinions of what it is on any given day and are at our wits end with trying for a magic potion to "cure" this.

It started out with 1 paw with days in between where she would stay dry. It has turned into both front paws and total saturation. She flips those paws out or in and really gets fanatic about it. If not herself she wants to lick us or the other dogs...it is driving us crazy and her. She use to lick when we were gone but now she "hides" from us or in plain sight, she does this several times a day, no matter how we try to keep her from doing it.

We have tried booties, socks with elastic over her back, poodle leggings with elastic over the back - she can whip off and out of anything in a matter of seconds when we aren't looking and OMG the amount of sprays, powders etc......currently we have her back on plain yogurt in her diet w/acidopholus (sp?)instead of Probiotics powder and ACV. The list is long - in fact just this morning I ordered a new shampoo I read about Malaseb......

We think partly she does it because she is soothing herself and partly because something is certainly there. We feel there is still some yeast infection going on - in between her pads is rusty red and a tiny odor is evident when I use the dryer on her.

I might mention this is even a bigger problem for us since she is light cream in color and her feet have become a nice rusty brown which is not good for the conformation ring! So on top of it, we need to find something to get her original coloration back to match the rest of her leg furnishings and her back feet which she totally leaves alone, for now.

It is super frustrating, and at the same time we feel really bad that we can't seem to help her and it is becoming totally obssesive to her (and quite honestly to us as well).

I have not been showing her for the past couple of months since she has her AKC & UKC championships and she doesn't need any more stress at this point.

We really need some help and I'm sure you have questions for us that I have not supplied.

She has not had her Thyroid checked yet. Her feet get bathed every day to help remove the saliva stain from turning darker. I have shaved her feet, soaked her feet, massaged her feet. Well I think you get the drift. Our vet doesn't seem to be able to help and we do not want to put her on Prednisone! If it is an allergy it is not outside environment, nor do we believe it is food, we have taken out items to be sure and it hasn't changed anything. So if it is inside, then there isn't much we can change. I have never found a flea on her and their bedding, towels etc get washed with different soaps in case that was the cause.

We just want to have healthy dogs!! I'm sure you have heard all this before from others. She has been dewormed, no recent vaccinations and she comes in season every 4 months lasting about 4 weeeks. She also has more than her share of expressing her anal glands and is licking her vulva as well, even the boys are noticing her like she may be coming into heat, but she was just in about 6 weeks ago. (2 of our older boys are neutered the other is intact). Whew, I think this about covers it - any help you can give we would be ever so appreciative of.

Thanking you in advance and really appreciate this forum and Leerburgs website!!

How much exercise is she getting? I'm not dismissing the idea that it may be something dermatological, but my history with Dobes leads me to thinking of exercise first. It's easy for working breeds to get bored and develop all sorts of compulsions.

I've seen kenneled Dobes lick themselves raw if they don't get enough mental stimulation/exercise and it can quickly become a compulsion that's difficult to put an end to. The constant licking actually CAUSES the sores and infections, which would certainly develop an odor after a certain point. Antibiotics and topical stuff helps, as does removing possible allergens, but increasing the exercise and mental stimulation takes care of the cause.

Especially since you mention stress, and it sounds like you've tried everything else, I would put a training and exercise regime in place and see if it helps.

Could very well be, we are not dismissing anything and are very open minded. She spends alot of her time alone. We are gone in the morning in the dark and come home now in the dark. Any suggestions? Our set up is fenced yards that run downhill. We have waited on agility until her hips are x-rayed at 2 (coming after Jan 18th. We do not live anywhere for classes or training centers.

Mental stimuli suggestions for in the house? She is quite a couch potato but I'm sure could get aroused. She's kind of given up her toys unless the other dogs look at them as she is very possesive of her toys and people!

PF





e.t.a.

But we need to rule out allergen w/ derm vet instead of heading in yet another direction and losing more time. As it is it will probably take a while to get an appointment at Ames AND in the meantime we can try more exercise - I have thought of that as well.

Bouvs are a little harder for exercise here - cannot be out of fenced yard or must be on leash. We live in the country but next to a major 2-lane highway. I work all day and it is dark before and after when at home. We now have snow at least so they can play in the yard. But when she comes in of course her feet are wet and of course she starts licking.....I'll just make it a point to take her down stairs, put her on the grooming table and blow dry. She is pretty sick of me drying her feet!

We have talked of putting up some agility jumps in the yard, however, our yard goes downhill - I've also put off her jumping until her 2nd birthday for hip x-rays - then there is this greyhound that is requiring alot of attention - OKAY, now I sound like I'm making excuses huh?!? But you all are right, she does need more exercise and stimuli! We will work on it.

Thank you, thank you...... I don't feel as frustrated!

Edited by Connie Sutherland (12/30/2009 06:04 PM)
Edit reason: edited on request to add a PM to this board post

Good plan, to aim both ways, and you can start the mental stimulation and exercise immediately. How much do you know about marker training?

I know nothing about marker training but am game for a new challenge. I am only familiar with field training with Goldens for marking birds when they went down. I'll search the website - I know Ed & Cindy must have it there some where!

I did get my snow pants on and took Kia outside for a romp in the wet snow - I make a good retriever - I would throw a stick, she would run & jump and leave it for me to chase & throw again. I'm not sure about her, but I got exercise! Which is what I need, thanks Kristel. BUT, after 15 minutes outside and 15 minutes on the grooming table/blow dryer getting snowballs off her long, thick coat and then a game of tug-of-war, she is content for the moment without a sign of licking - we will keep the exercise up and try not to get after her if there are setbacks.

Thank you Connie for getting me on track for the open forum. You have been a life-line for us when we reached out. I have used this forum as a resource for so many topics and feel you all have been very helpful for so many. Good Job!!

Take everyone else's advice before mine but one of my dog has the same symptoms as yours and I'm 90% sure it is caused by an allergy to chicken.

Connie has previously indicated that food allergy is lower on the list than other causes.

When my dog has itchy rusty-brownish paws I immerse them twice a day in equal parts hydrogen peroxide, vinegar and water and add about 3/4 teaspoon baking soda. It's very helpful to clear up the issue but I have to be consistent with the administration. He's got it going on with one paw now and we narrowed it down to some frozen chicken broth that my husband was going to disgard but decided to give to the dogs about a month ago.

Good luck.

Cathi,
We will try that starting tomorrow morning. It has been the one constant in her diet. Even when we had her on her puppy food we were giving her chicken on the side at about the time this problem first started. All the other Bouviers were on a raw diet and were doing fine. Then as she got a little older we changed her over and chicken has always been the foundation. Certainly worth a try! Thank you..... I just packaged ground beef tonight and hadn't put in the freezer yet, so we're ready to go.

Is the vinegar white or apple? I tried one very similar a while back but can't remember which vinegar I used.

We now have 3 new things to start with - all of which we have thought about but didn't apply - too busy looking in a different direction that has gotten us no where until now.

Our many thanks to all for your input!!

I use white vinegar for the paw concoction.

Is this concotion for the relief of the itch and/or does it help to remove the staining as well, I think I had used it to help remove the staining - there have been so many things this past year! How long do you soak and do you submerge the entire paws? It is always a good time to get in grooming while they soak!

When we would swish her front paws in a bucket of warm water, we would see tiny particles of black - we are pretty sure they were particles off her pads.

I have had remarkably good results with this homemade concoction:

16 oz. of isopropyl alcohol, 4 tbsp. of boric acid powder and 16 drops of 1 percent gentian violet solution.

You can Google "Blue Power Ear Wash" for lots of info on it.

Yes, it's an ear wash (and a very good one)...but the two active ingredients in it are old-fashioned anti-fungals, so I use this miracle elixir liberally on licked paws and all sorts of moist skin whatsits and it has worked very well to clear them up. The solution itself is electric purple, but that stain fades quickly on light-colored hair, and doesn't show at all on dark hair.

Another proven item in my home first aid kit is Penaten cream--a German diaper rash cream. Google it to find an on-line vendor, you can't buy it in stores here I don't think. It also works well on a variety of skin irritations, including feet--and it's the only thing I've found that quickly clears up the fungusy red rash that sometimes appears on dogs' lips.