Hey, Folks!

I would like to get some opinions/ideas on a situation which I am trying to help my boss and his wife work through with their new GSD/houdini.

Zoli is a generally well-rounded 65# white female, about 2 yo. A friend of mine adopted her about a year ago from a guy that spent little time with her and had apparently left her kenneled the majority of the time ... which leads to *drum roll* kennel issues/separation anxiety.

In short my friend had to give this girl up (for personal issues) at just the same time my boss told me that he and his wife were interested in getting a GSD. I set them up, and it was a hit! They've had her for about 2 weeks now. Zoli is doing really well with the transition and is bonding fabulously with Sam and Susanna ... couldn't ask for a better dog/owner match

The only issue is that Zoli is not content in the kennel when left home alone and has pushed out twice (I believe) and used the bathroom in an upstairs room both times (the only time she's had accidents in the house). According to my friend who had her, Zoli does fine left alone in a house out of a kennel, but I feel it's important to use the kennel for pack structure reasons, and to not give that kind of freedom just yet ... plus there is a cat in the home as well; they've gotten along just fine so far, but who wants to push it by leaving the dog out alone w/the cat?

Advice I've given so far: **Exercise and more exercise **Leave a kong and a cow hoof in the kennel **Don't make a big deal about leaving and coming home **Use the kennel here and there while people are home (not just when everybody leaves) **Feed in kennel ** Sleep in kennel **Plus, we're getting started on marker training so that we can hopefully utilize that in this situation!

Despite following my advice, Sam and Susanna are still experiencing technical difficulties (I believe they are registering for the forum and should hopefully join this conversation soon) ... Any other ideas?

Email from Susanna .. More details:
********************
"Kacie,
Thanks for the work you did with us the other day and I will keep in mind that the protective displays are a no-no at all times.
I wanted to follow up on my text from last night as I woke up with some concerns and thoughts I wanted to run by you. I will try to be as comprehensive as I can here so we can address a string of issues all at once.

Sam and I have been thrilled with Z's general temperament and her basic training. However, there are some things are stressing me out and, being a "plan" kind of a gal I need to come up with some kind of schedule, albeit a flexible one, that can address existing issues as well as to establish contingency and future plans. I would also like to address some of the things Erin said and "translate" them.

1. Crate
Although she knows what "crate" means we have some issues here (as you know). She tends to be alright at night - a few minutes of pawing at the door and whining. We have put a bed (now semi-shredded) in there for her at night-time but are taking it out during the day, which leads me to the day-time crating issues... She is shredding to bits anything (one carpet was completely damaged, another hand knotted person has a chunk out of it, her blanket is in tatters and she began working on her new bed) that is within reach, whether it be in, next to or over the crate. The wire is mangled to the point where we cannot get the bottom latch to slide over anymore and we have 6 carabiners securing the door and one keeping the tray in place (she kicked this out of the slide twice last week even though we "zip-tied" it). She puts up a big fuss when we leave even if she has a kong and other chew toys in there. This is concerning to me in several ways:

A. I don't want her to injure herself during the day

B. Sam and I, as you know, both have full time (and I mean FULL time - we both do 9-10minimum hours a day) jobs and although he is going home now for lunch that cannot be something that lasts forever.

C. I need to have cleaners/contractors etc. there when neither Sam or I are there - not sure how she is going to respond to this. Tuesday will be a test but I am temped to ask Sam if he can go be there while they are there. He also suggested putting her in her crate outside when we know we will have people there. I want to foster that protective nature in her but also don't want her to freak out when people who are allowed to be there arrive and work.

D. I may (and this is a big maybe) be able to take her to work with me from time to time, but if she needs to stay at home she needs to be able to stay in the crate without doing harm to herself or property or whining/barking up a storm. As appealing as the work idea is I am undecided on account of the fact that not everyone likes dogs and the shedding could be an issue with people who bring in really nice things - they might not be so sympathetic.


2. Whining
This happens in the crate and out, and it has again occurred to me that when Erin said she "talks" to you she meant she whines. This needs to stop but I am not sure how to go about doing this.

3. Inside vs. outside
I have been doing some reading and the majority of people say leaving her outside is bad - bad for aggression, bad behaviors, protection of the house etc. I understand all of this but I need to know what a "regular" schedule looks like after we have her integrated. Do we work up to leaving her loose in the house all day? Do we get a fence, electric or otherwise (will she just jump though an electric one?) and a doghouse and leave her outdoors when we are at work? Do we need a dog door so she can come and go as she pleases?

What do we do if "offenses" ie chewing, pooping, cat chasing (there will be no evidence of this unless Tiger gets injured) etc. occur in the house while we are gone?

4. Timing
This new schedule of ours in proving to be rather chaotic and I have concerns about life getting more chaotic. Granted the frigid temps have been a bit difficult in terms of outside time (although she is currently getting 2 runs a day at least) but I know it is taxing on Sam to have to go home everyday to walk her at noon and it frazzles my nerves to leave her banging away at the cage when I leave.

So, what are we looking at in terms of timing - when does she get used to the crate and stay calm? When does she stop the anxious whining/pacing that seems to be occurring? 1 month? 6? If we are looking at 6 then I definitely need a plan - an assignment if you will - of what do on a day by day basis to help her got over this as soon as possible. When does Sam not have to come home for lunch every day, etc.?"
********************

Hi Kacie,

I'll let those with separation anxiety experience respond, but I do want to say that the behaviours this dog is exhibiting are anxiety-related.

I see behaviours like this in nearly all of my foster dogs when I first get them. This dog has been uprooted and is in a completely new environment. Because we cannot explain to the dog what is going on, we have to wait for them to figure it out.

I assume this dog has not been in a shelter, which will surely reduce the amount of time it takes for her to acclimate.

In my adult fosters, it generally takes about 6 months for them to "settle in". My dogs come from shelter situations. When my dogs are placed with new families it still takes about 3-4 months for their true personalities to shine and for them to feel they are part of this new pack. I call it "learning the ropes."

Until that happens, they do things like chew, pace, whine, dig, cry, and shred their bedding. With that said... anxiety behaviours can definitely become habits and being proactive is definitely the way to go. I applaud your friend for taking on an adult rescue and trying to work with her.

A crate in the house or a secure kennel in the yard (with a top and a dig-proof floor) are good ways to safely contain the dog while she is acclimating to her new home. Your suggestions of stuffed Kong, etc, are good. In order to help reduce her anxiety during this time, I recommend dog appeasement pheromones (DAP) spray (they may be able to find at a pet supply store or vet), or this product http://leerburg.com/75.htm - I have used both and they really help.

Obedience training will also help the dog feel more secure and know what's expected of her, as will a consistent daily routine and lots of exercise. The most important factors here are time and patience.

There are lots of people on this board with experience in separation anxiety. Good luck and keep us posted.

While I do have experience with separation anxiety, I'm with Angela about the timing. The term really has little meaning so soon (two weeks).

I hope that they are understanding of the extremely calm no-big-deal attitude they must have about leaving and returning, and that they are practicing leaving for a few seconds, popping back before the dog can react, doing it again, making the length of time random, etc. Leaving has to become close to a non-event.

I'd be there for the first several "outsiders arriving" sessions, again with extremely blase demeanor, even if the outsiders have to be volunteers from the neighborhood or family. Then I'd leave while the outsider was there, have them leave, come back in, etc. (You get the idea. lol)

I hope too that the big exercise push (do they understand that this doesn't mean frolicking alone in the yard, but means power walks and games with the owner?) is focused on pre-crating .... leaving a tired dog in the crate.

Also, can someone else be hired long-term to do the noon potty? That person could start to meet/know the dog now. This makes the day for the owners much less chaotic.

Taking the dog to the office might work best after they get a http://leerburg.com/1072.htm

I wanted to add my sincere vote for marker work. This upbeat training, in short frequent sessions, is so huge in bonding and in building the dog's confidence.

QUOTE: Whining
This happens in the crate and out, and it has again occurred to me that when Erin said she "talks" to you she meant she whines. This needs to stop but I am not sure how to go about doing this. END For me, this is classic "ignore and stop rewarding with attention; mark/reward for quiet" stuff. We all make the mistake of rewarding this with attention. Then we "smarten up" and stop doing it -- until the dog escalates, thus teaching the dog that the ante has merely been upped.

About the fence -- I wouldn't be planning to leave a dog alone in the yard for 9 hours anyway.

I say good for them, by the way, for reaching out for info and advice. I hope they join the board here.



All JMO.

Hey Kacie,
I know this is going to sound stupid, but make sure they are actually filling the Kong with something.
I don't know how many time's i've suggested a Kong to someone and after a week they will say the dog just isn't interested in it. So I ask, well what are you filling it with? And they look at me confused. If they are filling it (im sure they are, but i just thought i'ld throw it out there) make sure they are filling it with something the dog absolutely loves, and have them freeze the Kong.

I can't see a Kong filled and then frozen not interesting a dog.
My previous dog had seperation anxiety (howling, scratching, chewing, digging etc.) when left alone. A frozen Kong filled with peanut butter, or a mix of peanut butter & yogurt or canned food helped ALOT in the beginning.

Seperation anxiety is best worked on in stages. And although I understand they work full time. I would ask them to set aside a whole weekend, maybe even take a Friday off if they could, and work on it. Start in small increment's. Put dog in crate (no fuss, no muss) leave exactly as they would to go to work (coats, boots, shoes) but only difference is they are waiting right outside the door. Have them listen and the second the dog is not whining (i mean any break in whining tell them to jump on it, but their timing has to be good)they come back through the door and praise or treat, through the crate if they have to in order to make sure the dog understands quiet ='s good things.

Now, I worked on this over 4 days with my previous dog and did it in small doses and worked my way up to longer periods. It is unfortunate that they don't have more time to work on this, but again, im sure all of us understand the concept of having to work (lol). Even after the four day's i was still gradual in how long Taz was left (1 hour then 2 hours then so on & so on).
Seperation Anxiety is a tough nut to crack, and some dogs just never get over it completely. Just make sure they know this may be something that might pop up again every once in awhile even if they do get it sorted out now.

My first airedle had seperation anxiety and would relieve stress by chewing furniture. He would only chew soft objects and we decided put him into a spare bedroom blocked with a baby gate. He was not a jumper so it worked realy well. He did chew a chair but never touched my two bookcases.Even had his own bed,still intact.
May not be the solution for you,not every dog respects a baby gate. Mine had a crate in the room that he could use.