Hi All,

I'm new here, but the discussions I've read really show a practical knowledge of dog training that I'd like to learn. This week we've been dealing with the question of taking on a new dog, and I think I really need some outside help.

Basically, Monday we took in a little corgi as a trial to see if he'd fit into our family. We have three cats, a grey-muzzled rescue dog, and a horse. Our acerage is completely fenced, plus we have a smaller fenced-in backyard.

Our older dog Duke is an indoor/outdoor guy and is hands down the absolute best dog in the whole world! I know there's a lot of competition here for the title, "Best Dog", but he's the one I call to search my house when I come home to an open front door! He's also our hiking companion, quick to warn us of mountain lions in the area (when he goes on point and his hackles go up, we can often find fresh lion tracks in the sand nearby), and he comes off a chase when called. At the farmer's market we get many compliments on how well behaved he is with an amazed "that dog looks like he's got some pit in him!" As if pits can't be taught to mind! Duke seems to like the new dog, and some re-arranging of who goes where and when is helping to show Duke that we see him as the top dog (from reading some of the articles, I think he's more of a "soft" dog).

The corgi was well-liked where he came from, but the reasons given for his moving on were the family didn't feel he was a good fit and that they had no yard. He seems to be a very happy, very playful dog (he's 1 1/2 yrs), who has absolutely no training and is afraid of men. We have learned, and very quickly, that he thinks the household should revolve around him and that our commands are for his consideration. For example, when called to come (which he does know), he plops down and gives an 'I don't want to' stare.

Oooo, this sure makes me mad! I've dealt with this behavior before and am going to read everything here I can about this. I also bought Ceasar's book yesterday. Our relationship has quickly digressed into his being toted around the house on a leash and being tied up when I stop moving.

But yesterday I realized that I am not entirely seeing the whole picture, and that's what I need help with - my perception. You see, when we adopted Duke three years ago, we also adopted another dog. The pound staff allowed us to take Sunny (GS mix) home based on my husband's dog experience, my horse training experience, and the fact that we were the first people they had seen to keep him calm and under some resemblance of control.

Thus began a prolonged love-hate relationship with a monster. I learned so much about living with a highly intelligent, highly dominant/aggressive dog in that year and a half, yet I would rather not go into the price we paid for the experience. Everyone I spoke with said we were doing the right things and gave us a pat on the back. After several escalting events over the course of several months, I finally agreed with my husband that we had to return him to the shelter. I had finally come to the acceptance that he was beyond my training ability. The shelter was not surprised to see him back. They were, however, surprised that we had kept him as long as we did.

Yesterday when the little, iddy-bitty 30 pound corgi plopped down when I called him, it hit me that his issue was not with men so much as it was with authority. He saw women as under him, and I was not playing by his rules. Living with a monster will do that. But what really concerns me was my reaction to him - I felt fear. The hair on the back of my neck stood up, my heart started racing, and it just felt like I was entering another confrontation with Monster Dog. Just then Duke trotted in, happy to hear me call "come", and broke the effect. I got the two sitting (well, corgi's getting the picture), and then called them to "come" through the door. God sent me a good dog in that Duke!

So the problem is in my perception. The little dog has issue with authority, but he is not a monster and I should not be reacting to him as if he were. What should I do?

Also, if it helps, I grew up without dogs and was afraid of dogs for many, many years. It must have been an irrational fear, because I cannot recall any incidents that could have caused any fear. I got my first dog, a happy-go-lucky german short-haired pointer/labrador pup, in college and she did wonders for my coming to understand dogs better, and I truly feel that she helped me overcome my fear of dogs. And the horse training has helped me become concious of controlling my body language, so that even if there is a scary situation, it does not dominate my thoughts or actions. Or should not, which is why I am seeking help here.

Because corgi is on trial with us, I want to make sure we make the best decision, for both us and him. Yesterday morning I was all for shortening his stay and shipping him back where he came from, but after much thought I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake and perceiving him out to be something he is not. How can I make sure my previous experience does not cloud the dialog that's actually taking place?

Thank you very much for reading my very long post, and for your welcomed advise.

Samantha

You have had the dog less than a week and you expect obedience?

It generally takes many weeks or more often months for a dog to bond & trust a new owner, expecially an adult dog & more so one that has not had the best of life thus far.

Obedience is the last thing that I would be worring about or working on at this time. I would be interested in the dog learning that I am a fun, fair person from which all good things come, and starting the bonding process. JMO

Why is everyone is such a hurry?

I wouldn't label not coming as called as an aggressive act, and certainly it would never 'send chills down my spine'. There can be a myriad of reasons (the dog not fully understanding the command at the top of the list) a dog won't instantly respond to the recall. This is one of the toughest commands to proof 100%. You are asking the dog to stop doing something he/she enjoys immensely, and come hang out with you. In order to get a response you must have the bond with the dog to have him want to come in to you (which generally takes much more than a week), and you must have trained the dog to come to you (also generally takes much more than a week).

Read this, it may be helpful in bringing an adult dog into a new home.
Pack Structure for adult dogs

 Quote: betty waldron

You have had the dog less than a week and you expect obedience?

My reaction too.

But also, saying that he "knows" the recall. How? How could he know to come to you in a matter of four or five days? A fool-proof recall (to you) in less than a week isn't a realistic expectation for any new dog.

"I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake and perceiving him out to be something he is not." You are. It's good that you are questioning that and getting some experienced advice.

No one here is trying to jump on you .... but dogs are trained. You have a new-to-you dog who cannot possibly have bonded with you, and on whom you are laying a boat-load of perceptions and expectations, as you (I think) recognize.


"I'm new here, but the discussions I've read really show a practical knowledge of dog training that I'd like to learn."

Great POV!

Can we help you with the training? Do you know marker training? You have definitely come to the right place for help with training and bonding with a new dog.

You will get loads of help here.

WELCOME, by the way!

A lot of good points made already. I agree with them.

You can not expect a dog to do something that it has not been trained to do, and you cant expect yourself to train a dog to do something if you have not been trained.

Personally I think dog training is pretty easy, cut and dry once you learn what your doing with some good old fashion hands on. But, one thing that really takes years is being able to "read" a dog.
I work dogs that you can give hard, forceful corrections to and it is what gets them to preform. I work others that if you do that you will ruin the dogs training and they preform on the same level as the other dog, but it takes a softer hand. Reading dogs on a dog to dog basis takes some time.

You have to bond with your dog first, making him trust you and respect you at the same time. Imho.
If the foundation to the dog is solid. You can always repaint the walls and put a new roof on him. Also just my opinion.

Also, find a good club in your area, some of us drive 1-2 hours a week, or twice a week to be in the clubs we are in. You will find that just as much, and sometimes more training will go into you then the dog.
I think it would be a good experience for you to not only see what these animals are capable of, but also to help you get over your fear. I believe your fears might be hindering how dogs react to you.

Just some of my thoughts.
Welcome to the forums.
David.

The Corgis that I have had the pleasure to meet, have all been rather independent dogs. They aren't klingy, and they would rather do their own thing.

You mention an "I don't want to" stare. It may be a "WTF" stare insead. He may just not know what you are asking.

When my friend adopted her dog, she was EXASPERATED after 2 days because the dog wouldn't obey her. She said my dogs are all so well behaved, and she wants him to be like that. I had to bust her bubble and tell her that my dogs took years of work to get where they are. I also told her that it takes a while for a dog to learn the rules in a new home. My dogs would be complete butts in someone else's house until they learned the rules.

Teaching a dog the rules is not difficult, but it requires patience and fairness. The new dog should not be compared to the old dog, or the current dog. He is seperate, and different. The dog hasn't learned your language yet. Give him some time to bond with you, do positive training, and lots of play. Obedience will come in time, when mutual trust has been established.

You say you have worked with horses. What do you do when you bring a new horse to live with you? I have adopted 2 abused horses and I spent time grooming and talking to them. Giving them treats. Showing them that I am a good and safe person to be around. It's the same with a new dog.

Don't show him that you are mad.. it won't be productive at all. Dogs don't have the cognitive ability to intentionally piss us off, even if we think they do. If you are getting frustrated, then stop the training or whatever you are doing with the dog and walk away for a few minutes.

Don't expect too much too soon. Start out like he's a pup and doesn't know anything, and build up from there.

Good luck. You will get lots of good information here.

--Kelly

I appreciate your responses - but did anyone actually read my post?

First, no, I am not expecting obedience within a week. That's ridiculous, and that was not the point of my post. The point was, I realized that when the little corgi displayed certain actions that my dominant/aggressive dog used to display (like the lay down when called), I felt unexplainable fear and felt myself bracing for whatever the dog might do next ... and he's just a friendly little corgi. It was an illustration.

I want to know how I can overcome this fear. Because I can recognize it, I can deal with it, and maybe someone out there has some pointers on this because it is a misplaced fear.

Please understand I am not looking for a well-trained dog by day four or five! It took Duke nearly two years before he became the gentleman he is today.

Perhaps I made a mistake in posting here? If so, I'm sorry.

 Quote: samantha hawley

I appreciate your responses - but did anyone actually read my post?

First, no, I am not expecting obedience within a week. That's ridiculous, and that was not the point of my post. The point was, I realized that when the little corgi displayed certain actions that my dominant/aggressive dog used to display (like the lay down when called), I felt unexplainable fear and felt myself bracing for whatever the dog might do next ... and he's just a friendly little corgi. It was an illustration.

I want to know how I can overcome this fear. Because I can recognize it, I can deal with it, and maybe someone out there has some pointers on this because it is a misplaced fear.

" .... did anyone actually read my post?"

Yes, I did; I read your post carefully .... I think .... Maybe I confused misperceptions/fears with statements of actual expectations, though.

I read this: "We have learned, and very quickly, that he thinks the household should revolve around him and that our commands are for his consideration. For example, when called to come (which he does know), he plops down and gives an 'I don't want to' stare."

You do understand that he does not "know" this after five days? And you don't really believe that "he thinks the household should revolve around him and that our commands are for his consideration" ....


I did understand that you were wrestling with your own recognized misconceptions when you said "I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake and perceiving him out to be something he is not."

I replied: You are. It's good that you are questioning that and getting some experienced advice. .... a boat-load of perceptions and expectations, as you (I think) recognize.


If what you are looking for most is a way to overcome the fears and misplaced perceptions, my own recommendation would be doing marker work, starting with Step 1, building your confidence along with the dog's as you work through Basic Ob in an upbeat, positive way -- doing short and frequent sessions daily, enhancing your bond with the dog all along. If you and the dog are learning and bonding, all upbeat and all positive, fear will soon have no foothold.



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From my reply above:

"I'm new here, but the discussions I've read really show a practical knowledge of dog training that I'd like to learn."

Can we help you with the training? Do you know marker training? You have definitely come to the right place for help with training and bonding with a new dog. You will get loads of help here.
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I meant that!

I believe that upbeat training will be key, and that this is the place to learn about that.


I think that you are examining your reactions and looking for answers (good for you!), and that you have found a great place for all dog-related issues.