Hi to all I am new to this site!

So on with something a little odd, well it is to me anyway. We have this supercharged 3.5 month old Caucasian mountain dog, who is going to be a MONSTER when he grows up. We have been doing bits of training with him, but due to being busy at this time, also the weather has not helped, we have either been drowned due to so much rain, or subjected to 38 and 40+c temperatures, so we cannot get out in the garden with him to do to much training. He is in the house at the moment, but has plenty of room to do his puppy stuff. With his own room, of about 2mtrs wide by about 4 mtrs long, and then there’s the other bit he has access to, which is about 2.5 mtrs squire. This is his bed and playpen as it were, We have managed to pretty much get the house training thing out the way, as he seems a very fast learner.

We also have a Great Pyrenean mountain dog bitch who is about 5. a half now, who also does her own thing around the house. She is not trained but after 5 years she knows where she stands with us and never pushes the rails, she knows how we operate as it were, and just fits in.

So that’s a little of the background!

Little dog, the new boy on the block has a very high pray drive, and shows signs of being a dominant animal. This is quite normal for this breed as they are a handful on a good day. He has tried it on a few times and we have managed to kick him back into line, pulling on the lead, trying to take me for a walk, all the normal attempts at being the boss, but I did try the idea of are depravation for 2 or 3 seconds on a couple of occasions and he very soon learned AIR IS VERY NICE! When there is none about! So now most of the time, he starts to stray from the right path, and couple of short sharp tugs, and NO! and he thinks the air is going run out again, so he walks the line again. Although there are times, when he lays down and just won’t walk, lays flat, like I aren’t going no where. So he gets dragged, guess what he does not move, the attitude is, So drag me! And his whole body gets dragged 2 or 3 mtrs up the road, and he does not make any attempt to get up. Stubborn little mother!

But considering everything, the food, sit, stay, come, down, wait, heel, we can’t complain. After all he is only 3.5 months old. OK, he get his sloppy days and times, but he is slowly getting the idea, we hope.

I don’t want some military trained robot or some death machine that eats people who piss me off, we only want a nice family member who knows his place, does not give us a hard time, but if anyone attempts to raid the house, they end up a hot lunch. But these dogs are genetically bread for this type of thing, and he already shows these tendencies. That’s why we take him down the market every week, to get him used to people, lots of them. As he is a bit stand off ish to strangers, I mean I don’t mind him showing his teeth to people who are out to do us all harm, but we still need to take him for walk, and go the vets sometimes, and we don’t need these people being eaten.


But the main question is, or what I would like to know, what’s a reasonable about of time to spend with him everyday, 5 or 10 minutes here and there, or several hours. We do let him out into the main house, but as normal, you can’t do this for more than about 10 or 15 mins, as he is into everything, steeling the towels, shoes, you name it he is into it. It’s hard to spend nice time with him, as he seems to permanently chew anything and everything, as he still has those needle teeth, so the only 2 things that sort of work, to stop this seems to be stuff something else in his mouth instead of my hand or arm, and eventually if that runs out of fuel, he has to go back into his area. But he does spend a lot of time there. It seems as though, we have out every 1.5 to 2 hours or so, for about 10 to 15 mins and then has to go back, as he ends up getting too excited and starts to loose the plot, we are off down the nasty road. SO, back he goes again. Is this normal, as he never seems to just stay still and be nice, hence he is supercharged. Any thoughts or guide would be useful thanks

Hi Norman,

I imagine you are going to receive some fairly strongly worded responses to your post. I would encourage you to think of your puppy throughout all of this and what you're setting up the next 6-10 years of your life for.

I would encourage you to seek professional help for training, preferably someone with livestock guardian experience. You need to improve your dog handling with this pup or I'm nervous for what kind of dog you will end up with. In the mean time, no matter how annoying your dog is being a 4 month old puppy should not be physically corrected for anything, choking out a puppy is pretty darn unacceptable for any dog. It's unreasonable to expect your puppy to just "know" what you want, you have to show him, and direct and redirect him to the proper behavior.

My suspicion though is that your home is not set up for this particular dog very well. Can I ask why you picked a breed like Caucasian ovcharka? What size property will this dog be allowed on? What do you expect this dog to do as a function?

Wow! I just googled the breed and again I say, wow! I have boerboels who where massively challenging as pups, and the 3 of them are now 8 months and the two litter sibs 14 months respectively, and are a daily challenge, hard work dominant and VERY sure of themselves, they are balanced out by 2 sweet and biddable english pointers, but I have to be on the bb's case 24/7, we have a busy household and lots of the kids friends in and out, so while they are guard dogs, they have to know it's me who decides who is friend or foe, I think the puppy behaviour you describe is typical in any breed, but given your boy is going to be a giant, I imagine you are going to have to be alpha from here on in, categorically, and indefinately, I don't know anything at all about the breed, and I talk daily to the breeder and the breed club about my own, have you got a lifeline from your breeder? I am certain you will get some invaluable and honest advice from many experienced people on this board, it has been a fantastic point of reference for me, the breed you have looks amazing, and I wish you much luck and joy with him.

Kind regards
Tracey

Hi Norman, Welcome to the board. I would stop dragging your puppy along when he gives up immediately. Take it from a person who has used hard handed approach and failed. It does nothing but turn your dog off to you. You have to constantly gauge your dog and give just enough correction so that he will not tune you out.

Carry some treats with you and when he lays down on his belly, try to coax him with the treats or, carry a flexi lead and run away from him while calling him in a silly voice. Dragging doesnt work. I have tried it.


Regarding your main question about the amount of time. The ideal time to spend with your dog I would say is about 10-12 hours. You need not be actively doing stuff with your dog, but they need to be included in your life activities. It may be some thing as simple as them sleeping at your feet while you watch TV or on the internet instead of being put away. But they need to be with their master.

I would say a minimum should be 4 hours daily. Again this is not 4 hours of training , but 4 hours your dog is with you so that he can learn your rules by trial and error. Training should be 5-10 minutes every day 3 times a day.

thanks for the reply. I relaised the drag thing does not work, but I gave it a go.

Hi Norman, do these dogs have a job? Or are they companion dogs only?

Choking off a pup at 3.5 months is more than extreme; it borders on abuse.

Willie Tilton has Great Pyrs and is experienced with livestock guardian breeds. Perhaps she will see this thread and comment...

If I had someone hanging me every time I wanted to play or explore something new.
I'd probably drag my feet around too.
Walking certainly wouldn't be of any interest at all.

If those dogs are what I've read about Norman, you'd better stop and re-assess how you and this dog are living together, like RIGHT NOW!.

The only advice I think you need for the moment is to read up on and start bonding activities.....strictly bonding, nothing else.
You're going to need that bond before it's all over.

Bonding, nothing else Norman. No physical corrections at all.
Spend more time with this dog then you do with your wife or child or anything else.
Remember. Bonding is the objective now.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

Is this puppy getting the opportunity to burn off any energy??? If he is that "into everything" in the house, I can't help but think he is not getting to wear himself out. Quit shoving something in his mouth and give him something appropriate to chew/play with! Hopefully the folks who are familiar with this breed will soon chime in.... oi.

Thanks Lynne!
Norman.......
I have the experience to help you.
I am willing to help you.

Please don't be offended by what I'm going to say, but I have had some demoralizing experiences unrelated to you, however it has affected my willingness to help.

Having recently spent quite a bit of my personal time typing up responses to other new people on this board and having my advice totally ignored, I am understandably somewhat reluctant to have another go.

In addition I have a message box with several requests for help from Board members who I know will do what I say, and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on someone who is once again going to blow off what I have to say just because they don't like it.

I will be happy to help on several conditions....you listen and try what I tell you for one month straight.
You don't improvise on what I tell you.
You ask questions and do home work to make sure you understand what you are supposed to do.

I will not tell you to do anything that will hurt your puppy, and the techniques will be fair and "industry standard per this site, and other responsible LSGD training techniques.
If you are interested respond and I will help.

Again, I mean no offense, and I would really like to help you turn this dog into the dog you have dreamt of
Willie

Mr. Tilton,

We all offer information in response to posts that catch our eye. People agree, disagree, follow, ignore, argue, etc. But we post our information in the hope we can offer some insight in re the original issue as a response to the post - and follow-up commentaries. Sometimes we are satisfied and some times we are not.

Your response to the original post is the first one I've come across that seems to pre-condition access to your input with some kind of pledge that the individual will follow your recommendations for a month or you will keep your suggestions to your self. Curious.

There is no doubt in my military mind that your suggestions are valuable and will prove effective, that you are invested in sound training practices and have the experience to comment authoritatively but... Your post caught my eye.

I would have thought your post might better have been advanced as a PM.

As I noted, curious. Not really any of my business, I suppose.