OK, so we are starting the heel. I've never atempted to teach her a proper heel, although we fake it pretty well on our walks. She has a great 'Watch me!' and will stay by my side looking at my eyes for a good distance when we walk.

But now I want to start from scratch, with no leash. We are in the back yard and I'm using the fence to keep her straight. I am luring her into a sit by my side, marking and rewarding.

I have then been taking a few steps forward, but I think maybe I'm moving too fast.

Here are my questions:
Sometimes her sit is not in the correct position. She's too far back. Should I continue to mark and reward? We've done 3 short sessions to date, and she does not need to be lured into the sit anymore. Should I give her a negative reinforcer to try to get her to move forward? Or lure her forward with food?

Do I need to wait until the sit is correct all of the time before I take a step?

Once she's at the point of actually heeling, when I stop she should sit again, right? Lure this behavior?

I would start with luring her into the proper position to show where you want her, and then go to the negative "nope" if she doesn't sit where you want her to sit. No corrections - just a "nope" and start over. You can perfect the sit in the right position and then begin moving forward.

I trained Falcon to sit when I stop.

When I say foos, we set off walking. When I stop, he stops and sits without command. If I want him to stay sitting, I say sit before I move off.

I hope this helps. I know the more experienced folks will chime in!

 Quote: barbara schuler

I would start with luring her into the proper position to show where you want her, and then go to the negative "nope" if she doesn't sit where you want her to sit. No corrections - just a "nope" and start over. You can perfect the sit in the right position and then begin moving forward.

Thanks Barbara, that does help...

A lot of times Lynne, you can just twist your torso a little to the right so she thinks your going to move and they'll scoot that little bit forward. Don't reward for that though. Heel a step or two and give her a chance to be correct for a reward.

Where you reward is important. You want to feed her right where you want her head to be. I used to always release and spit the treats, not really worrying about where he was when he got them. Now even when I release, I give the reward by hand either right in the correct spot, or directly above it.

I don't start teaching an off lead heel until my dog is so solid on lead that I can throw the lead over my shoulder and just let it dangle like it is not there. Using the lead to only correct the dog if it needs a correction, but letting the lead dangle so there is 0 tension of any kind on the dogs neck, or my hands.

From there I go to a one of the collars that have a handle on the top and I let the dog off lead heel 100% with no lead, but I have the handle there for a correction if needed.

I don't use a fence or any type of obstruction to keep the dog with me. This process takes place live in open streets and fields.

I will also not start off lead work until my dog can preform stay, sit, down, come from a 40 foot lead 99.99% of the time.

In my opinion a lot of people push off lead work to fast and this is where problems start. If your dog is not 99-100% flawless on a lead, I would not start training an off lead. If your dog will not down in motion, sit in motion, or recall in motion. I would not start training off lead work.

Because with out these qualities off lead your dog could be out of control with out you knowing it and attack another dog, a person, chase a rabbit ect ect. With things like a solid recall, or down in motion on lead, you will have a better foundation to start these things off lead. Otherwise you could be asking for trouble.

Just my opinion.

So you correct the dog before it learns the behavior?

If not then how are you teaching the behavior....We are talking
about a real heel..not just walk by my side....

I don't think it's right to correct a dog with a leash correction before the dog knows the behavior.......teach the behavior first with marker training and then when it knows it and you are proofing it, then correct with the leash.




Edited by Willie Tilton (07/31/2010 10:11 PM)
Edit reason: spelling

No the dog learns the behavior and is corrected for not doing it.

I mean the OP's dog just put another dog in the hospital and possibly thru out a ladies back less then 4 days ago.

I would be more worried about a down or recall in drive/motion before I was worried about "not just walk by my side".

Based off that one instance I would dare to say the dog does not have the control to be off lead yet.

Willie, I am happy you have found the perfect training style that everyone should use. I am happy it works for you.
But buddy, there is more then one way to skin a cat.

When teaching formal heeling (or any other exercise) we are not concerned with off-leash control simply because the training is happening in a controlled environment. You don't just take your dog to the streets and try to teach him behaviors where he has to learn the new thing AND ignore distractions?

No. The off lead is just the last in steps. Off lead is just worked on after distraction work.
Distraction work is kind of something that is always around though.
For dogs I get as puppies I don't ever have massive issues with distractions. Because they are so socialized. From day one they are around kids, dogs, with me while I am working with the horses, farm equipment, training in groups ect ect. I take them to a field by Ft. Mcoy and train, or just let them play around while the army is doing missile work. So by the time they get to be a few years old they don't even notice that stuff.

By the time I take my dog to the streets for live off lead work the dog has already been worked on lead for years.
Its a slow process. I know there are other ways to do it, faster and better ways. I understand and respect these ways. I keep an open mind.
This is just the way and process I am comfortable and confidant with.

I also don't train for bite sport. I train for personal OB and Personal protection. The closest I get to bite sports are open to the public fun shows for little trophies.

Like I said. It is just my opinion.

Lynne, are you just looking for pieces to improve a focused, formal obedience style heel?