My boyfriend/partner and I adopted a 6-yr-old pit mix named Kramer three weeks ago from the Humane Society location where I volunteer. Neither of us have ever owned or trained a dog before, but he has worked with dogs for the past 9 years (currently with an emergency 24/7 animal hospital) and I grew up with a close extended family who always owned lovely lab, rottweiler, mastiff, and malamute dogs.

From day one, we have been very careful to establish ourselves as dominant over the dog, just to be sure. He is not allowed on the beds or the couch, he must wait to enter any door or descend any stairs, and he must sit for his food. Kramer is very sweet and eager to please with humans, including children, he is not interested in bothering with cats, and he's fairly friendly towards horses, but he does have some dominant aggression issues with other dogs. He has never barked or snarled at another dog, and he generally ignores other dogs completely when we're on walks, even when the other dog is barking and flailing on the end of its leash. (Off leash dogs running back and forth close to him are another story - he does strain at the end of his leash then trying to get to them until I can get his attention and move on with him.) Most of what I've read on other dog aggression addresses fixing these openly aggressive problems, which is not exactly the issue for us. We even had an off leash chihuahua charge us once and Kramer stayed relaxed and didn't do anything except look at him.

However, on the other occasions that he has been close to another dog, he has exhibited dominant behavior such as mounting and thrusting his muzzle over the other dog's shoulder. While on a two hour walk in D.C. with friends, he pinned but did not bite their 10-wk-old beagle puppy (who was not being controlled and was frequently in his face licking and jumping) when the puppy nipped him on the lip. Kramer is a 50 lb dog, most of which is concentrated at the shoulders up. He's pretty powerful and because he's a pit, I need him to be more than a model dog because of all the bad publicity surrounding pit bulls. Also, I didn't realize it until I owned a dog, but you feel a lot of the same pressure to present a well-behaved dog you're proud of to the world, the same way you want to present a well-behaved child you're proud of. I can control my dog and keep him away from other people's dogs, but I am realizing now after a trip to the beach that I can NOT control how other people manage THEIR dogs. I need my dog to not even consider becoming aggressive, no matter what another dog (or child, for that matter) does.

Is the dominant collar the only/best way to address his dominant issues with dogs? It seems geared toward truly dominant aggressive animals. Kramer does not guard or try to possess food or toys, he is very responsive to the obedience training we've done, he heels beautifully on walks when it's just me or just my boyfriend, and his only non-submissive act towards humans occurs when my boyfriend and I both take him for a walk at the same time and he pulls on his leash instead of behaving properly like he does when it's just one of us. (The more we leash correct him, the more excited he seems to get. Any suggestions there, too?)

Are you saying that you frequent off-lead dog spaces with him? Dog parks and dog beaches? If you do, then no, you have no control over the other owners or their dogs, or really anything. If you don't, then where are you encountering loose dogs? I would not go there.

Pulling on walks -- can you tell us how you trained loose-leash walking? And what do you see as the difference when you both walk him? Excitement? Different routes?

You've done a lot in three weeks!

Welcome to the board!

Thanks for the welcome, Connie!

We took Kramer on vacation with us to VA Beach, which is an extremely dog friendly place. The beach where we staying has "dog hours" and many families bring their dogs off leash, most of which are well behaved and mind their own business, some of which are overly friendly, and a few of which have no sense of boundaries. This was the first time we had encountered any off leash dogs, and while I knew I had only two weeks of training into my dog and he was not ready to run around off leash, we encountered a lot of unleashed dogs who came up to my leashed dog, which I had thoughtlessly never considered. While I never had any intention of visiting a dog park or entertained cute ideas of having play dates with the dogs of friends, I do believe in preparing my dog for any possible scenario involving other dogs. If I know it's an issue with him, I want to find a way to fix it, not just avoid the source of the problem.

As far as the pulling goes, we're not sure why he pulls when the three of us go out. I think possibly a problem that links both issues is attention and focus. We're still working on him with obeying commands despite distractions. Possibly the excitement of both of us on a walk is a distraction. We certainly don't do anything else differently. Kramer had originally come to the animal shelter as an abandon who was a nightmare on a leash. He was enrolled in a basic obedience course at the local Best Friends, which got him to walk nicely on the leash without a lot of pulling. Once I took him home, I would simply pull him back when he tried to get ahead of me and he got the idea pretty quickly. Now, with the exception of those gangs-all-here walks, he rarely goes to the end of his line, and when he does, a snap of the finger, a whistle, or a gentle twinge of the leash gets him back on track, if he doesn't self correct first.

 Quote: elizabeth nowik

Thanks for the welcome, Connie!

We took Kramer on vacation with us to VA Beach, which is an extremely dog friendly place. The beach where we staying has "dog hours" and many families bring their dogs off leash, most of which are well behaved and mind their own business, some of which are overly friendly, and a few of which have no sense of boundaries. This was the first time we had encountered any off leash dogs, and while I knew I had only two weeks of training into my dog and he was not ready to run around off leash, we encountered a lot of unleashed dogs who came up to my leashed dog, which I had thoughtlessly never considered. While I never had any intention of visiting a dog park or entertained cute ideas of having play dates with the dogs of friends, I do believe in preparing my dog for any possible scenario involving other dogs. If I know it's an issue with him, I want to find a way to fix it, not just avoid the source of the problem.

There's really no way to prepare your dog for an attack by another dog. I completely avoid off-leash dog parks and beaches and the like. One attack on your dog by another dog can change your dog -- forever. Strange off-leash dogs are something to avoid ... not fix. We really have no way of knowing the level of control that strangers have over their dogs (if any) or the level of aggression/reactivity/whatever in their dogs.

" If I know it's an issue with him, I want to find a way to fix it, not just avoid the source of the problem."

And it's not, right? The only time he has reacted was when he was on-leash and uncontrolled dogs were running around near and past him?

Or am I misunderstanding? Have there been episodes outside of the off-leash uncontrolled strange dog scenario?

 Quote: Elizabeth Nowik

... As far as the pulling goes, we're not sure why he pulls when the three of us go out. I think possibly a problem that links both issues is attention and focus. We're still working on him with obeying commands despite distractions. Possibly the excitement of both of us on a walk is a distraction. We certainly don't do anything else differently. Kramer had originally come to the animal shelter as an abandon who was a nightmare on a leash. He was enrolled in a basic obedience course at the local Best Friends, which got him to walk nicely on the leash without a lot of pulling. Once I took him home, I would simply pull him back when he tried to get ahead of me and he got the idea pretty quickly. Now, with the exception of those gangs-all-here walks, he rarely goes to the end of his line, and when he does, a snap of the finger, a whistle, or a gentle twinge of the leash gets him back on track, if he doesn't self correct first.

Sounds like you're doing a great job. How do you work on focus-under-distraction with him? Have you considered proofing him for distraction, gradually, in a controlled environment (maybe your back yard)?

And the mounting, muzzle-thrusting, and pinning that he's done.

Even if he's not keen to be friendly to other dogs, I want to train him to at least be polite. Maybe that will come as his training progresses and he can obey me no matter the distraction. Maybe I'm just harboring some silly fantasy of being able to socialize him to other dogs without me being concerned as to what he might instigate. Maybe he needs to be around some larger, calmer dogs that he isn't able to dominate. Truth is, I really don't know what would happen between him and another dog if an uncontrolled situation ever happened for whatever reason, and knowing that is a source of worry for me. Six years and (at least) three families can produce some pretty deep-rooted behaviors.

Going back to my original question, are you suggesting that the leesburg dominant collar would be excessive in his case, or would it be helpful in controlling him in cases where a dog does get close enough for him to take note?

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Sounds like you're doing a great job. How do you work on focus-under-distraction with him? Have you considered proofing him for distraction, gradually, in a controlled environment (maybe your back yard)?

We do work on the commands he knows in the back of our building. It is not fenced, but he does not run off (he won't even go pee yet unless I'm standing there) and there are no dogs around, so I will have him off leash and have him practice staying close to me as I move around, and have him practice coming when I whistle. I even worked on distraction training with him at the beach, with surfers running by and scary waves trying to eat his butt. He does pretty well so far once you GET his attention, but sometimes it's difficult to get him to the point where he is actually focusing on you.

I guess I'm still not clear on why he needs to be both off-leash and close enough to strange off-leash dogs to mount them or to have his lip bitten by a puppy.

To me, this "Maybe he needs to be around some larger, calmer dogs that he isn't able to dominate" sounds like allowing other dogs to correct your dog. Not a route I would ever take.

For me, socialized means neutral to other dogs rather than required to all play together off their leashes (or required to be in the midst of uncontrolled dogs).

I'd be talking about desensitizing if I had seen anything in your posts about problem reactivity.


I'm sure others will see the post, too, and offer suggestions.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Strange off-leash dogs are something to avoid ... not fix. We really have no way of knowing the level of control that strangers have over their dogs (if any) or the level of aggression/reactivity/whatever in their dogs.

I suppose it's fair to say that it saddens me a bit to think of my dog as THAT DOG that you want to avoid with your dog. Granted, I try my best to keep my dog from other dogs, but if the reason is aggression from my dog, I just feel like it could be a disaster waiting to happen. He rarely ever barks unless he's worried or unsure about something (I can count the times he's barked since coming home with me on my fingers), but I can feel the tension and see the dominant aggression in his posture and focus when he's focusing in on another dog. He nearly jumped out of his collar at the beach when a hyperactive puppy went tearing back and forth not 6 feet from him, the same puppy that later came over and tried to get aggressively playful with Kramer. I didn't wait to see what would happen. I just grabbed his collar and dragged him out of there until the owner showed up and pulled the puppy away. Then I had the awful thought that I'd probably made the situation worse by panicking and then made my dog sit until the other dog was out of sight.

And, as I'm surrounded by family and friends that do have dogs and strangers on the street that do have dogs, I have to admit that I feel like a bad dog owner or that I'm contributing to a stereotype when I have to tell people, "No. My pit bull is too aggressive towards other dogs. Please do not bring your dog near my dog." Obviously, if the statement is true, which it seems to be now, then that's the most responsible thing I can do as a dog owner.

Being neutral to other dogs is perfectly fine. This is actually what I'm looking for. Should I just be treating this then as the ultimate distraction for Kramer, another dog?