I purchased a wonderful working line GSD back in June. Dante is everything I could have wanted in a dog except one annoying habit, he barks like cujo at other dogs when on our walk or at the vet or the store. Now I read the other threads on the subject and have been doing all those things from day one when I brought him home. He is just turning five months old and this has not gotten any better, in fact I dare say it is worse or maybe he is just older and louder. It isn't not fear based at all, more out of frustration. He just wants to play with them (even though none of them have ever played with him). Perfect example: At the vet an older adult shepherd came in, I allowed him to say hello which he did very politely and then started barking at him. The dog ignored him completely, which was good, and I worked with Dante to redirect him.

Now he has been around other dogs, mostly my other dog a border collie who was very much neutral to him and all dogs and only recently started playing with Dante, and only tug... He will not wrestle. (I know Dante is teething and tug isn't the best idea but his tug drive is extreme and he and miles play so nicely with it so I allow it) Since coming home the only dog Dante really got to wrestle with was my sisters Anatolian puppy who we dog sat for a weekend. They are about the same age and got along great. I do take him to group classes, mostly to work around other dogs, and he is great. Stays focused, ignores the other dogs, and is never allowed to actually engage with any of them. So when will the cujo act stop? Most people I talk to say its a shepherd thing, but honestly he scares people already and he is only 50 lbs. He has always been neutral to people, will allow them to pet him without shying away but does not seek out attention from anyone other than my boyfriend and I. Will he grow out of the cujo act with age? Is it something I may have to correct him for eventually? It doesn't seem to make a difference if he gets to greet or not, he still puts on the show. No hackles or growling, just barking. When we meet other dogs out hiking off leash he greets nicely (only after the other owner and I agree to say hello) and continues on our walk.

The place I train offers a course for dogs 6-18 months and over 40 lbs to socialize in a controlled environment, etc. It is a class structure though so there is calls back from play, time outs for rude dog behavior etc involved. I am considering taking this course. Do you think it will help this issue?

Sorry for being so long winded but really I have never had to deal with an issue like this. He is just a loud mouth!

Hi Sarah,

A couple of thoughts...

I personally don't let Falcon greet strange dogs - period. I don't trust other people to really know if their dog is aggressive or not toward other dogs and I am not experienced enough to know every signal to watch for. (Also, dogs in a vet's office are already normally nervous and or sick - a double wammy for me.) You might be fostering this problem by allowing him to greet other dogs - he is learning that all dogs are out there for his pleasure and potential playmates.

Connie Sutherland has some great posts on desensitizing a dog... do you know how to search for a topic? They might be very helpful.

Have you done any marker training with your pup yet? I find it very helpful for giving me something else to have my dog "do" when he is doing something I don't want, rather than trying to get him to stop the unwanted behavior or correcting him...

Example: If Falcon has his head shoved in the pot of a house plant instead of saying "no!" I'll tell him "place" or "back" - something he learned with marker training and gets treats/praise for - consequently he is far more likely to oblige me than he is if I tell him to stop doing something he is enjoying.

You could start training your dog something fun/easy to do while on walks, take high value treats (you should absolutely be taking treats with you while walking/training at this age) and then when he starts showing interest in another dog - give him something to do which focuses his attention on you. Ideally, you will catch him before he is in full bark mode. It will take a bit of work but shouldn't be too hard.

Remember - YOU want to be the source of all fun with your dog - not every dog he sees on the street. Good luck and happy training.

Hi Barbara,

Thanks for the response!

Yes I do marker training with Dante, and own all of Michael Ellis Dvds (except the just released one... still on the shopping list). Dante is very well trained for a puppy and his drives are great. The dog at the vet was there for his shots, which is why I allowed the greeting. The barking boggles my mind because he has never been allowed to play with any dog on a walk, not even greet them (hiking is a different story, and he pretty much never starts in with the barking on a hike) so I don't see how the barking is resulting in him getting anything he enjoys. He also starts the barking after greeting dogs like the shepherd, not before. Walks are where he is the worst, I do bring treats and redirect him. I think we are on the brink of toys becoming more interesting than treats so I may need to switch over to toys, I just worry about playing so near to streets, cars, etc, even on the leash.

Getting him back isn't really an issue as he responds quickly to my sits or focus command and I know he can work around dogs without the barking as he does in class, etc. He has been doing this same thing since I brought him home. I guess I just want to know when it will stop? I am doing all positive training with him up to this point, but am beginning to wonder if correcting him might be the only way to fix the issue. I don't want to have to always be on the look out for another dog in case Dante sees it first, I want to be able to take a nice peaceful walk around the neighborhood. I want him to understand that barking at other dogs is not acceptable period. It seems if he is not actively engaged with me, he decided this annoying habit is the next best thing. Only I want to have a dog I can live with as well as do dog sports with.

Could it be that he is learning to practice the habit by doing that and thus me to engage with him? Which is why on a hike or class he doesn't do it because he has other things to do?

Hi, Sarah,


Have you read any threads on desensitizing (working towards a dog who pretty much ignores strange dogs)?

"Walks are where he is the worst, I do bring treats and redirect him. I think we are on the brink of toys becoming more interesting than treats so I may need to switch over to toys, I just worry about playing so near to streets, cars, etc, even on the leash. "

The focus work needs to start outside the distraction area, such as at home in a no-distraction back yard, and only very gradually are the distractions of other dogs close enough to react to added. But this is detailed in several threads. I could link you to a couple if you haven't seen them.



" I don't see how the barking is resulting in him getting anything he enjoys."

Barking is self-rewarding.

Hi Connie,

If you could post those links for me that would be great!! I have looked and read a lot on the website, and own Ed's raising the working puppy DVD.

Dante's focus work is great, even around other dogs, the problem lies when he is not my focus at the time. On our walks the only rules are to walk on a loose leash and stop at curbs and sit. I walk for exercise for my dogs and myself, so they aren't so much supposed to be a training thing more of a enjoy a nice sniff and stroll. If I was to practice heel work or sit/down stays and a dog walked by he would ingore it. Now if I was sitting at my vets office and a dog walked in, he would bark. Much the same way on a relaxing stroll down the block if he sees a dog he barks.

I am use to high energy working dogs having had border collies my whole life, and do understand it takes some time for them to learn an off switch to just relaxing, but this is getting annoying!! We do tracking training in the morning, obedience several times a day, puppy bite work in the afternoons most days. We play fetch in the yard several times daily and go swimming and hiking several times a week. If it isn't too hot he goes everywhere with me in the car. He plays with Miles daily. It isn't like I am keeping him caged up and he gets no exercise or mental stimulation so why the need to entertain himself if I am not directly asking him to do something? I feel like the old saying people say about border collies, "You better give them a job to do or they will find one themselves and you won't like it." I feel as though I am rewarding him for acting up, like a walk has become a hunt out another dog and bark and we will do some training and engagement work.
Thank you all for listening to me vent, honestly just doing that is making me want to pull my hair out less! I just want my puppy to be like my border collies have been. Stable, go with me everywhere kind of dog, and ignoring other dogs and people.

Today I went and visited my mother, we took the dogs to one of the state parks for a swim. I saw a golden coming down the road and passed off Miles to my mother. I walked and as soon as Dante focused on him, I gave a stern correction (he was wearing a flat collar) and said "no! Leave it". Honestly I think he was in shock since that has never happened to him before. He still looked at the other dog, but didn't let a bark off, and I never stopped walking. I felt bad correcting him, he is extremely sweet and sensitive, but I have to hope it drove a point home for him. Do you think correcting him in this fashion will make him aggressive toward strange dogs approaching? Is there a reason why I shouldn't do it? I remember during Ed's video about working puppies he corrects the german shepherd puppy for jumping up on a person for attention and then calls it over to him happy toned, but I know the video was made before the Michael Ellis more positive training took hold so I avoided any correction in my work up till now.

Thanks for the advice!

" ... I saw a golden coming down the road and passed off Miles to my mother. I walked and as soon as Dante focused on him, I gave a stern correction (he was wearing a flat collar) and said "no! Leave it". Honestly I think he was in shock since that has never happened to him before. He still looked at the other dog, but didn't let a bark off, and I never stopped walking. I felt bad correcting him, he is extremely sweet and sensitive, but I have to hope it drove a point home for him. Do you think correcting him in this fashion will make him aggressive toward strange dogs approaching? Is there a reason why I shouldn't do it? I remember during Ed's video about working puppies he corrects the german shepherd puppy for jumping up on a person for attention and then calls it over to him happy toned, but I know the video was made before the Michael Ellis more positive training took hold so I avoided any correction in my work up till now."

Not really similar to jumping up on people .... and no, I would not at all want to link strange dogs with corrections in the dog's mind. What you want is desensitizing the dog -- lowering his reactivity. IMO, the opposite of correcting the dog for looking. "... as soon as Dante focused on him" is what you will be avoiding, not correcting.




I think I posted once on the first page here and twice on the second one, about desensitizing for dog-reactivity. (The basic idea is the same, even though that thread is about a very dog-reactive dog.)

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/251675/page/0/fpart/1

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/251675/page/0/fpart/2



Also, the red "search" word upper right of your screen - click that, use "all forums," plug in desensitizing or desensitize as the search term, and expand the date range from one week to a couple of years.



eta
We have several regular members here who have been very successful with minimizing dog-reactivity. They will probably post too.

Like Barbara, I don't expect or want my dog to meet-and-greet strange dogs -- just to pretty much ignore them.

Update! :-)

First off I wanted to thank everyone for their advice!

After reading and talking to other friends and trainers I decided to try a gentle leader on Dante as a management tool. When we see another dog I say leave it (which he very much understands), if he starts to fixate I can pull his head away and get him to sit. Then I only praise him with words and pets which is all he seems to need. It has worked wonders! Dante trains around other dogs all the time in his flat collar in lots of different places so I know he doesn't have a fear based issue with other dogs. From everything I have read on reactivity he is a classic frustration barker (he does the same thing during our restrained recalls), and that is just simply not allowed toward other dogs. I have been making the effort to walk him even more and take him to the store, etc as much as I can. He has gotten much better, and really only needs a gentle reminder when the dog passing is barking and carrying on. I may stick it out with the gentle leader for a bit longer, he is getting much stronger and I want to save neck pressure for training like is mentioned in the Ellis Dvds.