Seriously, is there a raw feeding time-out room? A big dunce hat I can wear? I feel like a total idiot.

The puppy in question is an approx. 16 week Malinois bitch. I rescued her at approx. 13 weeks of age. I switched her over from the humane society diet of a major pet company to Wellness Puppy, with no problems.

A few days ago, I went to the grocery store, fully intending to start the switch to raw. I've been wanting to do this for a long time, and apparently I just got a wild hair and marched off into the distance with grand fervor. As I couldn't find chicken backs there, I purchased some chicken leg quarters.

Well, I then went to our local "natural" pet food store, and somehow got talked into purchasing some of that Nature's Variety, the beef. I am still not sure how myself, a pigheaded and stubborn mule, managed to be swayed by a salesperson. This is certainly a first. What's worse is that I took her word for it when I asked if the only ingredient was beef and beef bones. Of course, many of you probably know this is not the case - there is organ meat, including liver, and other ingredients. I also dumbly nodded along as she told me it was a great choice for a puppy, and perfectly fine to just start her out on it right away. So, I go home with this box of food, terribly pleased with myself.

Now, let me just say that the pup had already had 1 cup of the Wellness kibble that morning, approx. 8-10 hours earlier. For her evening meal, I went ahead and gave her one of the leg quarters. She loved it, no problems in terms of physically eating it.

Stool that night was normal and formed. Stool the next morning was normal and formed. Now, here is where I just dig my grave deeper. Instead of trying chicken again, what do you think I fed the puppy?

Some of the Nature's Variety.

However, the tale of woe has not yet reached its peak. You see, she was fine after this, too. Normal stools, etc. The problem is that my fiance, not remembering I asked him to call me before feeding her her evening meal while I was at work, went ahead and gave her 1 cup of the Wellness kibble.

Can you see where this is going?

So, the next morning, she's got cannon butt, poor thing. Even though her GI tract is at war with the world, she's as happy as can be. But, man, I feel like such an idiot.....and such a jerk!

I fasted her yesterday, and I returned to my vet tech roots and she had a meal of rice this morning. Which I hope was okay.

Where do I go from here? I seriously need to wear a dunce hat and be put in the corner for torturing my dog. I'm not sure why I spent all this time reading articles and searching the forums if I was just going to go make these stupid mistakes!

It'll be OK.

You mean pudding poop or water poop?

Is your rice very very overcooked mushy soupy white rice (good)?

What was the last poop like (or has there been one yet, since the diarrhea)?

If the pup is fine with the soupy overcooked white rice with no skinless white poultry or other very-low-fat meat in small quantities added for palatability, then your most efficient route back to un-inflamed gut and normal poops is probably the plain soupy overcooked white rice, with a little plain (no sugar or spice added -- not pie filling) canned pumpkin, or plain canned winter (Butternut-type) squash (since there's a Libby's crop-failure shortage and not everyone has a natural food store handy for the smaller brands of pumpkin).

Hydration is most important, of course. Then getting soothing, stool-firming food into her, in small meals (small and frequent being much much better than large).

Post back with how the next poop is.

Don't be in a hurry to re-introduce a balanced diet; you want perfect log poops first, and then a gradual re-intro to either raw or kibble (not both), the first few meals being half of what you would normally give.

Unless you saw water poop, and if the poop starts to normalize now on the small mushy-rice meals, then the problem could have been just too much food.



PS
Nature's Variety makes frozen raw and dry, right? I guess you mean the frozen raw?



eta
Of course a growing pup needs a balanced diet, but she needs an un-inflamed gut first.

The usual error here is to re-introduce real food too quickly and in too much quantity. A few days of an unbalanced diet is much better than off-and-on continuing bouts of diarrhea.

If the Nature's Variety you bought is the frozen, I would just keep it in the freezer for later, using skinned poultry RMBs in small meals for the re-intro to real food (after the poops are normal on the soupy rice for a couple of few days).



Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/25/2010 06:46 PM)
Edit reason: eta

Thanks for the quick reply, Connie!

I'm talking water poop to start, eventually sort of changed to pudding by the end of the day. It was never quite as thick as pudding, but also wasn't straight water, either. Does that make sense? This morning she had a small amount of the same in-between consistency. That was around 1030hrs this morning. Nothing since (my fiance gives me regular updates while I'm at work).

Yes, the rice was overcooked and mush. I left a bit more of the same rice for my fiance to feed her for the evening meal. It was about 1/2 a cup for each meal.

Full access to water, and she is drinking normally.

I will pick up some canned pumpkin or winter squash, whichever I can find tonight on the way home. Sorry for the ignorance, but how should I feed the squash/pumpkin - straight from the can?

Yes, it was the frozen raw. I did switch my rock-hard-stomach Bull Terrier over to it, cold turkey, and he is in seventh heaven, with excellent poop. So, at least it isn't going to waste. However, I would much prefer to switch him off of that and over to "true raw" for lack of a better term. But, that's a bridge crossed at another time, and if need be, in another forum!

You can just stir a tablespoon or so into a cup or so of the soupy rice. (Dogs love it, IME, and it will probably make the bland soupy rice better, in her opinion.)

If you see brown-water poop again, you'll want to call the vet. I don't think you will, though, on this regimen, unless there was a non-diet factor.

If you don't find canned pumpkin or winter squash, I'm not a big fan of using sweet potato instead for diarrhea because of the much larger amount of sugar in it. But you might find squash baby food.


eta
While you're there, you might want to pick up some unsweetened plain live-culture yogurt so you can add a little of that to the rice once the poops have started to normalize. I'd use a little, to make sure the dog tolerates it well. (Most do well with fermented/cultured dairy like yogurt and kefir, IME.)

Post back your updates. It's the weekend and lots of board members are out training, but there are many very experienced raw-feeders here and you will get help about this even on the weekend.

Alright, just a quick note about tonight.....

Puppy hasn't had any stool, at all, since this morning. Had her second meal of rice tonight while I was at work.

Went to the grocery store, bought more rice....couldn't find regular canned pumpkin or squash BUT I did find Gerber organic baby food squash, that seems to have literally NO additives. Bought some of that to add to tomorrows meals. Forgot to buy yogurt, though.

However, I got home tonight and took the Bull Terrier out, and now he's sort of exploding. Sort of that...."there's-some-pieces-that-are-formed-but-it's-swimming-in-soup" poop. However, his stool this morning was soft, but formed, according to the fiance (who is probably loving all of this poop talk; I doubt he thought he'd signed up for dog poo reporting when we got together).

Guess he's getting rice and squash tomorrow, too.

I am definitely kicking myself, right now.....!

Awww, I don't have anything of importance I can add to help, but I am sorry that you are experiencing all this. (I do like your comment about your fiance and all the poop talk - what a nice guy).

 Quote: Erica Dalton

according to the fiance (who is probably loving all of this poop talk; I doubt he thought he'd signed up for dog poo reporting when we got together).

Guess he's getting rice and squash tomorrow, too.

I am definitely kicking myself, right now.....!

I am assuming that it's the dogs getting the rice and squash, not the ever patient fiance, right? lol

 Quote: lisa skinner

Awww, I don't have anything of importance I can add to help, but I am sorry that you are experiencing all this. (I do like your comment about your fiance and all the poop talk - what a nice guy).

 Quote: erica dalton

according to the fiance (who is probably loving all of this poop talk; I doubt he thought he'd signed up for dog poo reporting when we got together).

Guess he's getting rice and squash tomorrow, too.

I am definitely kicking myself, right now.....!

I am assuming that it's the dogs getting the rice and squash, not the ever patient fiance, right? lol

Haha, yes, the dogs, the dogs!

Actually, the fiance just walked into the kitchen and said "what the heck is this squash baby food stuff????" And sort of gave me a wide-eyed look.

Okay, poop update.

Both of them had mushy rice with squash this morning.

Puppy finally pooped! It was a bit pudding-like at first, then sort of formed up. I wouldn't call it solid, but there was definite shape and substance to it. Very yellow-bile in colour. Overall, even the loose stuff, had much more solidity to it than the original explosions.

Bull Terrier hasn't pooped since last night, but that doesn't surprise me.

They both very much enjoyed the squash, that's for sure. I didn't quite enjoy it splattering all over my face when I opened up the container, though......!

 Quote: Erica Dalton

Okay, poop update.

Both of them had mushy rice with squash this morning.

Puppy finally pooped! It was a bit pudding-like at first, then sort of formed up. I wouldn't call it solid, but there was definite shape and substance to it. Very yellow-bile in colour. Overall, even the loose stuff, had much more solidity to it than the original explosions.

Bull Terrier hasn't pooped since last night, but that doesn't surprise me.

They both very much enjoyed the squash, that's for sure. I didn't quite enjoy it splattering all over my face when I opened up the container, though......!

Good.

Please remember what we talked about earlier ... don't stop with the small meals of mushy rice and a little squash. Don't think that the first sign of a vaguely log-shaped poop is time to add back real food. You are going to want to see perfect poops and even then get a history a couple of days' worth before you gradually add real food. OK?

I know I keep stressing it, but it seems to be almost irresistible to most owners to jump for joy and start filling up the food bowl.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Good.

Please remember what we talked about earlier ... don't stop with the small meals of mushy rice and a little squash. Don't think that the first sign of a vaguely log-shaped poop is time to add back real food. You are going to want to see perfect poops and even then get a history a couple of days' worth before you gradually add real food. OK?

I know I keep stressing it, but it seems to be almost irresistible to most owners to jump for joy and start filling up the food bowl.

Oh, don't worry! We are staying on very small meals until we are completely back to normal. I have seen too many client dogs continually explode because of owners coming off the bland diet too quickly. I have no problem ignoring the sad faces and "I'm hungry" dances in the kitchen!

Honestly, the only part that is hard for me is that this means training is on hold. No treats for upset tummies!

Thanks so much for your continued help. I appreciate it so much.

I still feel like a total jerk, but to err is human, to forgive - canine. Right?

But, I am glad that this does seem food related. It's always a little nerve-wracking to adopt one from a shelter environment. Add in the fact that I work for the humane society, and I'm always concerned about germs coming home with my on my uniform. Even though I take precautions, it's still a little worry in the back of my mind.






Edited by Erica Dalton (09/26/2010 01:13 PM)
Edit reason: grammar, etc