I meet a lot of people with dog problems because we all seem to be the same place. Go figure?
While at the vet I met a couple that had brought in their 5 yr. old male GSD to check his rear leg joints for arthirtist.

As we waited in the lobby I spoke with the man, while his wife took the dog in for his examination. As we talked he said that the dog had been protection training but now he was starting to suffer some stiffiness of the joints.
He thought due to training on all type of surfaces he thought bite traning on slippery floors did most of the damage. He felt that the trainer pushed them too hard. The dog lost his feeting sometimes during these training session, but never stopped bitting. One of the guys that helped train them was now saying that the dog should be put down. He made mention that he had some pups from nearly the same blood line that were down. He stated that the 5 yr. old was spent and suffering, because he can't keep up the training. I asked how well did they know this guy, and I was called in for our exam.

They had waited after my dogs exam and we left together I asked "What was the Doctors opinion?" She said that he recommend that they stop the rough housing and bring the dog back after two weeks to discuss his finding.

As we were loading up they had a problem, getting the dog to get back into the SUV. He tried once but would not try again. Circling the vehicle as if looking for a easier way in, until ordered to sit. When they attempted to lift the dog he growled. Not menancing but like hey watch out!

The wife mentioned that maybe the trainer was right the dog growled at the Vet and her after a lift attempt, the exam was done from the floor and then muzzled. She was wondering if there was a mental change happening or the dog was getting meaner.

I asked for his leash, and hooked it to his collar made a make shift muzzel and lifted the 95 - 100 lb dog into the car Whew! They told me that was first time that he couldn't jump in himself, they asked my opinion on his aggression.

I told them that IMO that any dog thats hurt, especially a domainaint dogs, protection trained or not would growl if it thought you may hurt him. I asked, "If They had ever tried to pick the dog up before this injury"? I should have known the answer he as about 150 lbs and she was barely 100 lbs. They stated that it was never necessary before, so no.

I then asked if "He ever shown any aggression other then in a attempt to lift him or manipulate his rear legs"?

They said no, they can add medication to his food while he is eating (mix it with their hand), they can order him away from his toys and food.

He is still great with their grand kids and still plays fetch with them. He is the same dog except for this stiffness.

I told them if they can except him as a pet now, that can't work on slippery floors or jump through windows. He still would be a good dog for them.

The male stated that he thought the dog was acting that way because he was too proud to need helped or be lifted. I don't think a dog thinks like that I really think he felt vurnable and was protecting him weaken limb.

Whats your opinion? If the Sport/protection training is not the dogs sole purpose, do you think this dog should be destroyed? Or even if it was his sole purpose should this dog be put down?

Really my dog will growl at me if I step on his foot. I don't think thats an act of aggression but like hey "Watch out you big OX, thats my foot you'er stepping on".

Whats Up? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I'll call them or tell them where they can find this, topic on-line.

I know there's plenty of people out there who think dogs are disposable and as soon as they become inconvenient, they put them down, but I'm sure not one of them. Of course he shouldn't be put down. The growling wouldn't concern me at all - it could be fear of pain from the lifting, it could be insecurity cuz he's not used to be picked up, but it sounds like a mild problem, easily worked around. Here's my biggest problem with this situation - the lack of a diagnosis (unless the vet gave them more info that we aren't hearing about). Just chilling out and coming back in two weeks would never cut it with me. I like an aggressive vet and one who is honest enough to admit that he is NOT a specialist and that it's time to refer when it's orthopedic or neurologic or whatever. Whatever this dog's problem, it can probably be managed and he can have a good life - who cares if he can't do "protection work" (as if he would have ever needed to use it anyway??).

Lee The Vet gave some joint and pain medication, (this was lost in my point making) I guess the two weeks wait would be to see if the medication helped and maybe get X-ray results diagnosed
ect..

Do you did the guy/trainer that mentioned putting the dog down was trying to sell a puppy.

Are there really people out there that think because a dog can't respond as fast to a hypothetical situation that the dog is no good? Sorta tunnel vision don't cha think?

Growling and vicious snapping would be problem.
or should that be a ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Do you ***did*** the guy/trainer that mentioned putting the dog down was trying to sell a puppy.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Should read. Do you think the guy/trainer that mentioned putting ...

If the dog is kept alive, please be cautious with children. The dog in pain tends to react different. I saw a childs face get 21 stitches when he bumped very hard into the back end of a lab with HD. They said the dog didnt even know what hit him.... he just yelped, turned and attacked.
Prior to this I (or owners) never saw a mean bone in his body. Is this one of those things you rarely hear about? I dunno, but, I thought of it when you said he is fine otherwise, and he plays fine with the kids.

Oppps sorry, I realized after my post that you said it was someone in passing... not someone you personally knew. But besides the level of pain the dog has to live in, that would be my next concern.

Michell wrote - If the dog is kept alive...

Michell, do you think the dog should be put down?
Or is protection training all a dosg worth??

I'll pass on how pain can change the way a dog reacts twoard childern that might hurt him, by accident.

Well, I certainly do not think the dog should be put down. It sounds to me like he is just reacting to the pain. ANY dog in pain can act aggressively -- it is self-preservation. It in no way indicates an "off" temperment, although, for safety sake I would be causious with kids for the same reason Michelle mentioned -- kids just aren't as careful as adults.

I am concerned that they were training on slippery floors and were aware that it was slick. This should have been avoided. A slick floor is to a dog what a sheet of ice is to you and me. A dog could be badly hurt if he does not have enough traction to do his job. He could even have a hairline fracture in one or both of his hind legs or hips due to slipping.

It is silly to think that the dog is simply worn out at the age of 5. He should be in his prime at this age. If he is only just now exibiting signs of stiffness, then I would guess that something in their training (either on the owners' or the trainer's part) has gone wrong -- i.e. the slippery floors or he was pushed too hard too fast.

JMO

I replied that way "if the dog is kept alive" because that choice is not mine. Since you ask... I have kept my dogs alive til meds cant help in extreme pain... I have lost two that way and hadn't the heart to watch suffering. Working dog or not was not even the issue.

Kali some people train on slippery floors doing protection training because there maybe a incident were the dog must work inside on that type surface. There is always some slipping and tugging, if the dog can stand this type pressure.

Some even view this a suitability test for the next level of serious PT or patrol work. I do see why its practicle building searches, kicthens, bathrooms, dinning room floors may be likely areas of home invasion attacks.

You will need those precious seconds that a dog will give you to but plan B (Your Gun) in the works. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />