I had been waiting for results on my 17 month old male GSD, and all that came in was actually normal. I still felt and told the vet this, that I wanted the dog scoped from top to bottom, as there had to be a reason as to why the dog still seems to have ulcers and is doing a lot of spitting up, belching, and gagging...the vet "sure, I can scope the dog for you,"..."...but once I do, no matter the diagnosis, I'm sure the dog will have to be maintained for the rest of his life on prednisone." I will never go back to that so called specialty center EVER...

Holly, in reading back over your first post about this dog, you said in regard to allergies that "there were some but none too serious" or something to that effect...

Was he diagnosed as having allergies, and if so, to what?

What is he being fed?

Does he keep any of his food down?

How often is he "spitting up" and does this mean vomiting?

What do you mean by "the dog still seems to have ulcers"? Was he diagnosed and treated for ulcers in the past?

Dear Barbara,
Thanks for your reply...OK,,,here is the DX on the allergies for Nikko:
Barley
Corn (borderline)
Carrots
Kelp
Pork
White Potato

HOWEVER, he was never able to tolerate much of anything, even though the allergies to the other foods are a negative. He was a perfectly healthy dog at time of purchase...aside from a tad of giardia and roundworm, treated and I check and reworm, he is free.

Right now, Nikko can't tolerate foods of any kind...he WAS eating a raw diet, Bravo, 3 lbs a day, never had a problem, since August 21, 2010. That was the day I got him, he was 6/7 months at the time..no issues...I prayed for a healthy dog, after what happened to Laurel, my past shepherd who passed on recently at only 2 1/2...

He can't eat cooked foods, raw food, nothing...the only thing he can keep down is either low residue or ZD ultra, and even with that, the stools are slimy...sometimes formed but if they are formed, its only the first piece...subsequent pieces are either mushy pieces, ploops (like a hersheys kiss), or just plain old pudding.

I tried another vet, and he ran TLI, normal 13.1. All bloodwork, including recent Total Estrogen, T3, T4, IgA, IgG and Igm...all OK. On february 21 of this year, the TLI was also 13.1, with the range being 5.0-35.0.

In early Feb, however, I was told by yet another vet that his metabolic analysis turned up some imbalances or just slight borderline imbalances in several areas, but I only saw two, which were Neutrophils result at 54 considered low, as the range according to them should have been 60-77 and Eosinophils considered a TAD high, with the report reading 11, with the range being 2-10...

BUT that was back in February...those are changed, and all bloods seem great.

His murmur is a I-II / VI murmur, as it was on Feb 19th of this year...in Jan 2011, he started with black tarry stools, and the vet removed him from the Bravo. To me, he did worse and seemed to always do worse with any type of foods which were thermally processed...but as he suggested, I switched to the Low Residue, which to me, was horrible...we then tried to reintroduce the BRAVO again, which was a total flop...then again the ZD Ultra...now they have him on Viokase, but I don't see much of an improvement, the only thing I see with that is that the gurgling in the stomach is a a lull, for now. Before it was as active as a battlefield. So now, he's on both the ZD and low Residue with the addition of the Viokase. Still not great...there is something else going on with this dog, trust me, I know him, and know there is...you know, you just sort of "know your dog."

Anyway, just for you info, I had them do a barium, which showed nothing. To me it was not done in the professional manner in which I had another one done, on another dog. I looked at the films and really saw nothing which stood out at me.

At that time in February, the gallbladder was distended with a large amount of bile...ducts were cystic. his prostate at the time was 'mildly' enlarged, which they felt would go back to normal if he was neutered...when I found out he had the murmur, I decided to neuter him...but I also thought that a dog at 14 months at the time, should not have an enlarged prostate...

Finally, the cardiologist said no cardiac meds needed...he recommended a castration, and felt the GI signs should be treated symptomatically. He felt if the signs did not improve and black tarry stools were still present, he said to do both an upper and lower scope of Nikko...also he said to re-echo him in 18 months.

I have been given the runaround which is why I posted all of this here, as to me, this was only a small amount...you have NO idea of the stories I've gotten from vets, including the "I don't know's." Well, tell me then, why am I paying these guys 1000 a pop to hear "I don't know?"

One vet said he was VERY dehydrated, but he was not...his tongue was not the "proper colour" pink. Go figure, but I know why...I was walking him and he was attacked by a dog which was off a leash, which bit off a large piece of his tongue, and ripped his ear...he has since recovered and with training, he is able to work with other GSD's in a controlled setting...he still, however, will remain on guard once he is not at the training facility. I don't blame him.

Now, we've come across something else...I, a few weeks ago, got sick and wound up in the ER with dehydration and distended stomach. It is SOMETIMES a norm for me, but I do have Crohn's, so its happened, but I have been very lucky...no Crohn's meds since April 2010...I had a flare then due to a death in the family, and it triggered a flare. My most recent flare was a few weeks ago, but when I went into the ER, they asked if I was "out of the country." My tummy at the time looked like I was ready to give birth...something which did not alarm me, as that would be a typical look when I was having a flare...losing my other dog Laurel trigged much pain and stress, so of course, a flare was pretty much in evident. HOWEVER, the flare is still with me, and then I noticed that Nikko was not getting better...then my new puppy started to vomit and have loose stools and a 105 fever...no explanation. Then the holistic doctor asked me if we were exposed to anything at the training facility..we only share our sleeves and bite suits...BUT he suggested that my dogs most likely, OR should at least, be tested for H Pylori. I am going tomorrow, and the two dogs will also be tested by means of a mouth swab, blood work, and stool looking for H Pylori bacteria...I too will have the same work up at the doctor.

Yes, its been a mess...

Now getting back to food, Nikko has been keeping food down, but for a while I was finding pieces here and there, but it stopped...just until about a week ago, he would have an incident ONLY in the morning of bile, one vet said "its because he's empty." So I started to feed him a tad earlier...just last week, BOOM, bilious projectile vomiting started on Nikko...the pup continues to have loose stool...I'm still distended...I guess this is why they want to do the test for the H Pylori.

When I said Nikko still "seemed" to have ulcers, I meant that he is doing a lot of regurgitating, but nothing coming up...low burps and I can see he is not liking the flavour of what is coming up, but its not really productive, otherwise I would have grabbed it to analyse at the specialty center...he also does this thing like he is gulping for air...like a turkey gobbling...swallowing as if he has something stuck...I have ulcers in my esophagus and its the same type of thing...so they then put him on carafate

He was not diagnosed and treated for ulcers, the vets are just going by "assumption," so of course, now, I am at my breaking point...a sick "me", sick Nikko (but the black tarry stools stopped), and a sick pup, after a few grand, with NO explanations as what the heck is going on...so I feel of course, I am being taken for a ride.

I called another vet, and I demanded first the H pylori tests be done, as that is about the only thing that we have not done, and then I AM DEMANDING a scope on Nikko.

You know, you get a dog...you pray for good health...when I bought Laurel in October of 2008, she was four months...after losing a shep prior to that, I asked the breeder to please offer me some type of guarantee. He said "I guarantee all my dogs, as I've bred out every problem..." "you will be happy with Laurel...gee, well, now, Laurel is gone at the age of only 2 1/2, and I have another sick male here...so yeah, I'm scared to death, as I don't think I'm ready to lose another dog two months later after Laurel. I feel the scope is going to be costly, and my other vet knows the money we put into Laurel to be happy...I need more answers here, as I went through thousands with her, and I need quick answers.

The Carafate was just "given" to Nikko BTW...they probably just were tired of hearing my mouth, but I don't really see where its working. ANOTHER vet told me to try a 5mg dose of steroid tonight, but NO WAY will I do that. Laurel was on prednisone, and I saw what it did to her, and I won't do it...there has to be other ways...I just hope the vet can chew the price of both scopes down a bit, as AKC will only pay so much until they are going to start to question.

I'm happy to hear what you have to say, and if I was too wordy, my apologies...I just wanted to give you the huge, grand picture...hope I did not leave anything out. I look forward to your reply...BTW, that is a gorgeous pup you have there in your tag line...just saw one like that today at our class...I remained dogless today, just helping out, as I did not want to bring two dogs to class to stress them out...

Thank you so much again for your post! I look forward to hearing back...I also hope others read this, as no one should have to bounce like a bumper car at Play Land from vet to vet, and that seems to be whats happening with us, and its a ride I wish to get off of.

Has this dog ever had a course of antibiotics? Just a 10 day course of a broad spectrum antibiotic? Maybe some Baytril or some Flagyl?

Holly,

I wish I had the expertise to decipher all this info... honestly, it is a bit long to try and figure out. I do understand you're not wanting to leave out anything important, but this much detail is hard to digest.

The reason for my specific questions was in hopes of getting a few answers which would help those on the forum who do have the experience which might be of benefit to you, to take it and run.

Since you are having the additional test done, it might be wise to get those results and post again.

There seems to be a lot of different vets involved, yet in the post about the dog you lost you seemed to have an enormous amount of trust in one doctor who helped you. Are you still seeing him?

Hi Barbara, yes, I'm sorry, it was probably too much to digest for one person, but I was hoping to explain the entire story...I have to really have the other test done tomorrow for the Pylori and then I will have to take it from there.

I have tried many vets, and the reason for that is that when I lost Doctor Winokur, I lost everything. He was your old man, old timer, old ideas, loved him to death...since he died, I never really liked any vet.

I DO have one I trust, but his last comment was to "think about a decision." I did not know my dog needed to come up with a death sentence date so quickly. I though this was also appropriate for this, as this is one of the "many" comments which to me, were out of line, and fit the forum

I called him, told him off as I am very frustrated...my dog is not a commodity...he is my best buddy and a part of our family, so I felt the comment was out of line...he apologized, but I know I am being sensitive at this point and did not mean harm to him. It is just very frustrating. Just too close to Laurel's death.

BUT all in all, he is a good guy. I DO trust him and yes, I am seeing him and he is trying to get his other associate to do the scope for Nikko for a lower price. I appreciate him doing that. Again, right now, having the loss of my girl so close to the sickness of Nikko, is just putting a lot of strain on me, and my family.

We are all hurting now, and its hard...I will definitely make another post with regard to what the results are, as I will need some help from the forum. To me, I am SO happy to have been referred here, its the best thing that could have happened. I just want the best for Nikko, as I did with Laurel.

We have an appointment at 10 AM NY time, and I will wait...as patiently as I can. Then my next step will be the endoscopy. My doctor is good, again, I just have not been the easiest person to deal with the past few months. Just much heartache that I thought I was able to handle, but its just so painful.

Thank you for pointing this out to me, and again, sorry for it being so wordy Wish us luck, and thank you for your thoughts and comments...they are very much appreciated!

Betty, yes, he had been on a 10 day course of Flagyl but 8 months ago, but not for this...it was for the Giardia. I was told that IF we all have H Pylori, we will all need various types of antibiotics, such as Flagyl, Doxy, and others. I unfortunately, can only use any of the tetracyclines. We shall see.
I was concerned about Flagyl, as I was told that it was a type of antibiotic which made a dog sick, and takes a toll on their bone marrow, but again, that is a probably a post for another board...I'm not sure. I'm new to all of this and I want to be sure I am not over posting, or improperly posting in areas which I should not be...but recently, no, Nikko has not been on Flagyl. I personally am allergic to it, but we used it only for Giardia. Hopefully I'll have some good news and some answers within a few days. Thanks so much

Kelly, I wish you all the luck with your dog and I know many folks here will be sending positive thoughts. Keep us posted.

I will say if the one doctor earned your trust and was a huge help with your other dog, that is a good place to start.

Sometimes we all say things we didn't mean to say, and then sometimes it is hard to hear what needs to be said... he sounds like a good vet.

Hi Barbara, he is. I actually felt so bad I called his office and asked what he wanted for lunch and she told me KFC!? and I was like "gee, I thought he had high cholesterol," but I send him over two big buckets...I must say it looked tempting. He's a good guy, he really is. He actually just got off the phone with me and said "stop worrying, its all about medicine and goes with the territory." Have a great night, and thank you for everything...

 Quote: holly green

He's a good guy, he really is. He actually just got off the phone with me and said "stop worrying, its all about medicine and goes with the territory."

This is really good to hear Holly. Best of luck.