I have a 4 month old male German Shepherd. I have had him for a month. He is not altered. He is a very independent, aloof, and a very confident dog. Fearless. I have purchased the three DVD starter set. I have had German Shepherds in all of my life. My mother self trained our dogs down to a hand signal level. She taught us all how to take part of course.

Problems: Need Guidance on aloofness and what it means
Need Guidance on how to train a dog like this
Will having him neutered effect this attitude?
Am I expecting too much from him at 4 mo. to listen with distractions?
How do I train him to not move away from me after I pet him when sitting in my chair?


Only when I am in my Easy Chair, he will shy away from me, not wanting to be petted, or have any attention. When I lay down with him or on him he will get up and actually move away a foot to get some room. If I am playing tug with him, or just hanging out he plays and comes in for attention just like a normal dog. He is the first one at the door when I come home.

Right now I am working with him and using treats to bring him in. I am petting him and he moves back out of reach. As soon as I bring out a treat, he is right back in. I get him to look at me, not my hands and give him a treat. Over and over for five to ten minutes. Than I break and start again a little later. I am trying to get that repetition of 30-50 times.

By definition I am guessing you call this a "hard" dog. I think I am dealing with an "establishing the pack" issue but you guys tell me.

Background: I am a 100% disabled vet. I am missing part of my right leg and my back is really shot. Married with one 10 yr old boy. I am home all day and spend a half the day in my recliner. I walk with a cane. Sometimes a Wheel Chair.

• Background Hard dog
  4 mo. old
  House trained
  Very Strong Food drive
  Strong Prey drive
  Use treat bag and reward generously
  Use separate leashes for play and work
  The dog is a companion dog to help distract me from pain and get me off my medicated butt.
  I hope to train him to alert my family when I fall and help pull my wheel chair.
  
  I have another dog, Shepherd mix who has spine issues and pain. (She)Amy is on top of him in the pack right now, but just wants to rest and be left alone. She usually dominates any situation I bring her into to play with other dogs. She sleeps in my bedroom since she has been hurting so bad. He (Thunder) annoys her, but respects her, and he is clear she is under my protection. Sometimes they still get into a little serious play. He is still vying for domination, but since he knows she is my bitch so to speak, He is becoming less puppy stupid about bothering her.
  
  We all make sure we say hi to her first when coming in the door, and feed her first, etc. They usually play well together when he is more settled down and I would say they get along very well. Generally the older dog sleeps and does not interact much with the puppy. She is dying and probably will be gone by next winter.
  
  I have obtained the three video set and have trained him to sit, down, stay, yuck, NO, Give, Fetch, Stay and Come but only in non-distraction times in the home. Minor distractions in the home, he will listen.
  
  Thunder has his own room where he has access to an unlimited self feeding kibble feeder and his bed. His cage is in there also. Both dogs get fed half a can with kibble at 4 PM. I have my son or myself feed the puppy. He has many toys, intelligence toys, all over the house. We give him deer antlers, and bullys only for chewing treats.
  
  We use a doggie door so the dogs can come and go as they please into a fenced half acre. There are two cats. He respects them but wants to play.
  
  (I know I have broke two rules here, the dog door, and the feeder) I am firm on not changing these items. Lets just say, I it has always worked for me.
  
  The puppy gets a lot of attention all day from me and plays great. He has licked me a couple times, but not given me his paw yet.
  
  I believe there is no question he knows who is the pack leader. We follow all of the DVD instructions. I am working hard on developing a strong bond with him and play and lay with him a lot.
  
  I take him for walks and play with him in the yard as well as my son and his friend. The first two weeks, he was attached to me with a leash while I sat in my chair, and went everywhere with me. Once he could handle stairs and the doggy door he earned more freedom. He is now able to be left out of his cage when I go to the store. He has not been left alone a lot. I want him to be a family dog and I am would like to know how to handle a dog of this temperament and train him
  
  He is very well behaved when on a leash. For such a young dog, he walks on a leash extremely well. I have put his vest on and taken him to the bank and another day to Wal-mart. I was extremely impressed. He was only distracted once. Otherwise he was eyes on me, and watching his surroundings. He laid down and relaxed in the aisle and watched me. He walked great next to me. This is hard given I use a cane and walk awkward. He has a separate vest and leash for working. He seemed to know almost instinctively that when the vest goes on and that leash is used, he is going to work. He had no interest in the people at all, whereas when he is running around or when people come over, he is super curious.
  
  I want to know how to handle his aloofness. I don't understand why he will look at me, then get his treat, and I pet him. Then he backs off out of reach and looks at me. Almost like he does not want me to pull him in for some petting. He obeys all his commands with no distractions.
  
  I am working on Return now. He has broken the STAY at the front door and sneaked out and ran right off the property a couple times. I cannot get him to come back. Nothing works. I am working on establishing borders and he gets walked around the border three times a day when possible for a short time. I know he knows the borders and he knows the commands.
  
  When he does this, he runs from me like it is a game, but I can see he knows he is being bad. He puts his ears back and starts being stupid puppy. If he sees a stranger on this escape he will go right up to them, tail wagging, and want to meet them. He is very curious about people. I intend to do some long line work next, but don't know if he is too young. The video said eight months and he is half that old. What say ye?
  
  When he comes into the living room where I am in my chair he will go over and lay across the carpet. He doesn't even come over and say hi. Where as, my older dog, comes right up to me, sits down and wants to be stroked and talked too.
  
  I have never had a dog that did not want attention like this and I wondering what is going on, and what I should do. I hope I gave you enough background. Sorry about the long post.
  
  -Ken

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Regards,

Ken

Eric,

Welcome to the forum.

In my opinion, nothing you have said indicates you have a hard dog. You have a four month old puppy who has only been in your home one month and who is still getting used to the new environment. He might also be a dog who simply does not like or need a lot of affection - not all dogs do! It doesn't mean he won't bond with you or is not going to be a great dog; some dogs simply don't need or desire all the hands on attention some people like to give. One of my dogs would be in my lap 24 hours a day if I let her, the other one, at over 2 years old is finally okay with his ears being rubbed and scratched - he just isn't that kind of dog so I don't push it with him. Try and listen to what your dog is telling you where his comfort level is right now and just respect that. I think he is far more apt to come closer and want to be near you if he isn't being pressured into always doing so, but again, he might not be "that kind of dog".

Your dog hasn't been trained to the recall under distractions yet so nope, he probably won't come running back to you when he gets out of the yard/fence. That takes lots of training without distractions and then gradually adding distractions and time... you haven't had anywhere near the time needed for this in only one month.

I personally would limit the amount of time this dog and my other dog were together. He could very easily bond more to her than to you at this point. In addition, it sounds like she needs an energetic puppy as much as she needs a root canal so it really isn't fair to her. JMHO.

Do NOT give him the opportunity to break a stay at the front door when not on leash. The stay should be trained under far less distracting situations than an open door and if he is near the front door on a stay, he should be on leash and attached to someone at the other end. Every time he is breaking the stay and getting outfront, he is learning that staying at the door means I get to go out front. This is a MANAGEMENT issue - not a dog issue.

Hope some of this helps. You have a baby. He is only 15 weeks old - please don't expect too much of him. He needs to have time to play and have fun and not be expected to fill a role too early.

Hello Eric-
I have a dog who did not want touch. It was sad.
After months of trying to win him over with affection, advice from this forum was to become aloof myself for a 2 wk-3wk period. I did not touch him at all. Acted business-like, we had a "professional relationship only".
After about 1 wk, he began to seek attention. To "suck-up", really. Mostly I would act pre-occupied with other matters, but occasionally I would touch him very lightly for less time than he wanted.
Slowly, we built on this. Now his is affectionate and I am able to touch him all over. We have a great relationship.
My advice (this is the first dog like this I have ever owned) is to "play hard to get", act like you are the handsome football player in high school and he is a lowly buck-toothed zitty girl who needs to suck up to get a look from you. I think you will be amazed at the change you see.

I wouldn't give him the level of freedom you are giving him just yet. Crate him and keep him with you when he is out of the crate. Tethering can help a lot.

I would also be sure to work a lot on getting him comfortable with being handled and groomed. Super short sessions. Run a puppy brush over his back once, treat and praise him up. Touch one nail, treat and praise. .

Ken,

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. I am grateful.

I agree with the recommendation for an aloof attitude on your part. Be the obvious leader, complete with looks, ignoring, etc.

I think I'd have a leash on the dog all the time, were I you, in the house. If you want the dog to come to you - at four months - you have to be able to cue your coaxing, enticing, etc. - and no negotiating. A leash will give you more control options.

I usually break all the rules when it comes to wanting a dog to accept petting, and touching. We work on our bonding as a priority - me and the dog. I use the leash, gently, to cue the dog to come to me when I call. It can be for a simple touch or it can be for some serious petting and scratching.

I don't think it is easier for a dog to work with you if the dog won't come to you on command and understand its role with you. In my world, that is the priority or foundation for training generally. I want the dog to come to me willingly and happily.

I'd use a leash, and I'd work on the come, sit, stay, pet, touch, over and over throughout the day. And I'd keep reminding myself that the more I work with the dog at four months, the easier it will be at six, eight, etc. Gentle works with almost any dog - gentle but consistent and no negotiating.

I some times mention to people that you train today for the dog you want tomorrow. You can be more aloof today for the promise of closeness tomorrow. Dogs, it seems to me, adapt very well to leadership, and in the absence of it, they will exert it. And leadership can take the form of testing and setting their own rules.

Come, sit, pet/scratch, release. And again. And again. And maybe a treat. And always lots of praise. Marker training is a super tool.

I ramble... Keep the faith.

Mike

Ken,
Have you tried to find a local trainer to help out? My oldest male likes to be around people but hates to be touched for more than a quick pat,it's just how he is, I tell people to leave him alone, no big deal. Leaving you alone in the easy chair is a good thing, it's respectful, trust me the other way sucks, my youngest will leap and divebomb you and land on your head in a chair to get petted, affection matters to him, just how he is. So some "issues" aren't really issues!

Wow, thanks. Thank you all. That pretty much answers what I wanted to know. I do have a trainer I will be working with.

So I should not expect the dog to be able to Return under distraction until he is 8 months and after?

At what age should I neuter?


I will give him time to play and be a puppy. He doesn't spend that much time with the older dog. She sleeps more than he does. I close the door for her, if he gets puppy stupid.

I will be more aloof and keep working eye contact with treats. When he does want attention, he comes to get it. I just never had a German Shepherd, that didn't want to sit next to me. I will respect his personality.

I will give him more leash in the home again, especially at the door. You are right, that is a management problem, now that I understand he is still young and new. An open door is a big distraction, especially if he sees someone he wants to play with on the other side of the glass.

Would a short drag leash be OK?

Ken, for future reference, some of your questions (neutering age, for example) could have used their own threads.


I'll address the drag line: Yes.

And tether.

Also: Forget the recall for right now as a command and think of it as "making the dog want more than anything in the world to come to me." (And using a recall and then playing chase-the-puppy is SO counterproductive. ) JMO!