So, Just like anyone who has a less than optimal 'canine citizen' I have been having a difficult time with my dog..brace yourself.. the essay I have just about written is only an excerpt--

I'm going to cut to the chase; My dog does have aggression issues, toward people when we are out on walks (he is aggressive toward strangers in home as well)-- dog aggression is starting to spring back up since we had a bad encounter a while back and now he is convinced that all dogs must now die....

I'm going to condition him to a muzzle, but I am wondering if there any other things that I should be doing? To help him trust me, and over come his fear of strangers.

Around strangers (on-leash) he is suspicous and can even be unpredictable. This is what we are trying to work on..The suspicous thing doesn't bother me. Its okay for a dog to be uncertain, I don't like throwing myself at people, so I don't expect my dogs to do the same. I DO want him to ignore strangers though, UNLESS there is a REASON to react.
examples of his behavior:
1) on a really good day (haven't had one for a while now) he will sit calmly next to me and observe the strangers. And glance up at me to see if he is doing good.

2)On a moderate day (if I skip a day of going out for a three hour walk), he may tremble/shake like he is cold in the presence of a stranger, and maybe..mmmaaaayyyybee give them a small woof. Body language..he will still sit and listen to commands, BUT he will NOT take his eyes off the person/dog that he thinks is threatening--ie. talking to him, walking straight toward him, making too much eye contact, running, basically just being there..

3)On our bad days-- after a period of time when I simply couldn't take him out every single day for three+ hours of hard core excersise.. He will not sit next to me, won't relax, is jumpy, may bark (again his signature 'woof' of disgust--sounds more like a grunt), snap, or stand completely rigid-leaning forward, and squaring up his chest to tell anyone and every one--even your chihuahua-- to back off or else! For several months we had a really awsome streak of good days..now we are having bad ones

I have heard that dogs will have a little bit of a backslide whith training if it hasn't been consistant enough, or if the wrong techniques were employed--Im just feeling discouraged about working with my dog again--he was doing really well for a long time. Being relaxed around people and dogs, and Now its like I have to start all over

Tools used: Head collar, and meat treats as rewards for calm behavior


What I feel kickstarted the backslide:
1) while in the neighborhood on one of our afternoon walks..one of my neighbors accidently let their highly unsocialized american bulldogs out--male female--both not fixed. Aries was a little nervous, but sniffed the female who ran up to him first--he was okay with it, then the male dog came up and started trying to attack him.

The owner didn't have collars on the dogs, and both were trying to attack my dog. At first Aries was just trying to stay out of the way, and listen to us, and be a good boy..but when the dogs owner got between Aries and his dogs and started trying to push my dog away so he could put his bastard dogs in a choke hold to drag them back home with him, Aries became furious that a stranger was swatting at him and attempting to touch him--so he went Bonkers--
The whole time this was going on I was trying to keep calm, not add to the drama, or beat him and his dogs with my shoe--I wanted to keep us walking away from the mans house in the hope that the dogs would loose intrest once we were away from their ''territory''--but the dogs just followed since they kept escaping (I was holding my sisters dog to keep him out of the mess, and couldn't help my dog since my boyfriend was handeling him) Once the mane managed to grasp his dogs, I told my boyfriend to pick up Aries off the ground so we could walk faster and get away, and so that we could better defend him without getting accidently bit...eventually we got away from the idiot who didn't even appologize--but now every time he sees a dog, or if one thinks it can come sniff him he goes rabid.

If a stranger tries to get within arms lenght--he lunges and snaps multipule times in rapid sucsession, but he doesn't pull to go after people or jump up over my shoulders height..only dogs get the full display...no matter what their size.

Aries is the type of dog you only need to hurt him once and he is hurt forever. He remebers bad experiences, or ones HE thinks were bad-- and in the case of fight or flight--he preferes fight. Any adversives only make his behavior worse/more extreme.

I am worried that with this whole event that has left my dog shaken, and that the techniques I used may not work as well as they did in the past, because now he feels he has a REAL reason to rip people a new one that come anywhere near me, or him.

Ideas??


**Ps,
As a puppy he didn't learn bite inhibition. He would bite hard and draw blood, up until his adult teeth grew in. He would also play very rough, and if you flipped him onto his back, he would get really ticked off and after you let him up he would go after you (nipping and growling) as if to scold you for daring to do such a thing...Now that he is a year old, he doesn't mouth me as much anymore--especially since playing tug is permanently not allowed. He gets too focused on the toy and has no qualms using you as a replacement.

Sounds like a dog with fear aggressiion issues.

Some questions got give more info.

What is the age & breed of the dog.
Have you had him from a young pup.
Where does he live during the day & where does he sleep. Crate, his bed or yours.
Have you done any marker training.
What kind of collar are you walking him in.
How much of a 'bubble' does he have around him before he will react to a dog or person that enters it.

Skipping exercise is not a good idea. I'd find another place that is away from the usualy dog walking places to walk him.

I would remove him to another part of the house when you have company. Why stress him out this way.

Also seems to be some serious leadership issues that I would address immediately.

People here can try to help a bit, but it would most likely be more advantagious to work with a trainer that you can personally spend time with you & you dog. It is VERY difficult to address fear/ aggression issues over the net.

Big ditto! If you fill us in on Anne's questions and follow her suggestions, we can probably at least give you the outlines of the best protocol so you know what to ask/look for when you get professional help.

Desensitizing after a fuster-cluck like that is a process; it takes time and work. I am so sorry it happened to you both. I can tell you that while you can dial back his reactivity, management is almost certainly also going to be needed. JMO!

Anyway, more info needed.

You're in the right place, just as a reassurance! These two ladies in particular (Anne and Connie) can/will be VERY helpful resources to you!

Breed:
He is a Traditional Bone Mouth Shar pei Pitbull mix.
- There is some disagreement in the Shar pei world as to whether or not the 'traditional' Shar pei should be concidered a seperate breed..according to western Shar pei fanciers they are the same dog with less wrinkles...to the people that own dogs decended from the Chinese imports they are more aggressive, stubborn, and all around different. My take..I would agree. I have met several Shar pei, but none yet that are like him (and I am not just speaking in reference to his apparent dark side).

I also own a pitbull who is fearlessly affectionate to everyone, though not as smart.

Where he sleeps/is kept:
He sleeps in his crate in the laundry room aka "his room" at night, and is kept there when we have guests; I am already/have already been managing his environment. He is not allowed in my room, on my bed, or on my couch (unless invited, and he loves the command "couch"). The main part of the laundry room has a doggy door, so he can go in and out at will (I work over night, so...he sleeps while I am at work until I get home to take him on a morning walk).

Age/How long I have had him:
He is 1 year old
I've had him since he was 4 weeks old

Equipment:
He has a flat leather collar that he wears outside on walks in addition to his haltee (pinch & corrective chain collars overstimulate him and can set him off violently when we encounter strange new things, so they are not used).

His "Bubble":
His old bubble (what I had him reduced to) was arms length/three feet and he would begin to feel uncomfortable about people(adults)--he wouldn't snap unless they reached out to touch him--he has NEVER allowed anyone but me, my immediate family or boyfriend to touch him. He has never trusted or liked children--

His NEW 'OLD-old' BUBBLE (what he used to be like before I started working with him extensively after he started displaying what I felt was abnormally aggressive behavior, and what he has returned to) for people is ten feet, dogs--as soon as they are in sight he tenses up. If they are a football field away he starts trembling, 10-30 yards (depending on wether the dog is making eye contact) he will start to squirm, jump, whine, bark, or go ape poo if they bark back.

Marker/ Obedience Training:
He has a safe place in my kitchen next to the laundry room where he has a rug to lay on. He knows If I say "Rug" to go there and lay down and stay. He will obey the command if there is a knock on the door, door bell rings, or if someone unexpected comes over. "RUG" is also a place for him to sit with us, and stay out of the way as we are cooking--so he dosen't associate the command with the "impending doom" of a strange visitor.

He knows "OUT" for go outside, or if in the kitchen; get out of my kitchen.
"Couch" is Come sit on the couch
"Room" is to go in the Laundry room
"Bed" is his crate/bed
"Wait" is to wait by the door until I exit and invite him to come.
"Here" is come heel by me
"Look" is look at me
"Off" get off the couch/chair/what ever he is on.
"Back" back up
"Leave it" Leave 'it' alone
"Stop" means stop what you are doing and lay down (he will do this as he is walking toward me, or walking away...it's new but he loves learning new commands)
"Drop it" no explaination needed
"Up" get up
"Truck" Get in the Truck
"Where'd it go?" go look for the toss toy
"Duck" go look for his stuffed duck
"Ball" go get the ball
"Get it" go get 'it'
"In" get in the bath tub, or the pool.
"Search" (new game, he has to sniff containers positioned around the room to find the treat hidden in one of them..not too good at it, but he's learning)
And he knows "Sit, Lay down, Stay, Bang, Paw"
He responds to hand and verbal signals for all commands very well. Even with distractions like strangers in the home, or my rambunctious pitbull trying to break his attention. Even while on leash he listens to commands well--except the "leave-it" command, on leash in a strange place with cool new smells--leave it is more like "maybe".

You got him at 4 weeks old...this is correct?

 Quote: melissa hoyer

You got him at 4 weeks old...this is correct?

IS this correct? (This is enough of a red flag for us to be asking for confirmation that it's correct.)

Also: It's great that you have worked on the commands mentioned.

If he had bullet-proof ob commands, however, we'd have no thread. That is, if the dog reliably complied (and that means under heavy distraction), then you would not be mouthed or nipped and you would also have a fall-back command to give that would replace "lunging, snapping, and going bonkers."

The reason I say this is not to argue whether his ob is good, bad, or indifferent, but to clarify that foolproof ob would mean that you could give a command in a dicey situation, and the command would override the reactivity toward his trigger (the dog or stranger).

And again, this is not an accusation of poor training or anything else confrontational. It's a picture for you to have in your mind of the dog not only looking to you for the appropriate reaction in an uneasy situation, but also perceiving that complying with your commands in such a situation is safe and right. This is the goal of combined desensitizing and pack-leader work.



The question about marker training was more about "what tools do we have" than it was a request for commands you've introduced.

I'm trying to encapsulate a lot of POV in a short post.




What was the reason for the early removal from the litter? Was he orphaned?



"... he will NOT take his eyes off the person/dog that he thinks is threatening--ie. talking to him, walking straight toward him, making too much eye contact, running, basically just being there.."

What is the situation? In what situation is a stranger allowed to approach/talk to/stare at the dog? Again, I'm info-gathering. Please don't read these questions as accusations.


"... I started working with him extensively after he started displaying what I felt was abnormally aggressive behavior ..."

Working with him how?


"His NEW ... BUBBLE ... for people is ten feet, dogs--as soon as they are in sight he tenses up."

And what do you do? Do you keep moving, force him to stay and face them, what?



The dog needs to see you as his protector and reliable leader. IMO, he doesn't now; he needs to.



What I would want from a professional would be someone very experienced in doing desensitizing work with a fear-aggressive dog, and I would want the ob work to be upbeat and confidence-building (why we asked about marker training).

Have you read any of the threads here on desensitizing? I would search using the term desensitize and the term desensitizing (going back for at least two years) and read the threads.



Meanwhile, while reading the detailed threads for a clear picture of how the work goes (so you are able to be clear with professionals you interview for help):

I wouldn't allow any days to pass without the structured exercise he needs; it's crucial.

I would choose routes and hours when the least traffic (human and canine) was about.

I would not place the dog into the situations that trigger his reactivity; I'd avoid them actively (and calmly), and when one came up, I'd calmly but rapidly move away.

I'd have the dog under my own control and have no other responsibilities or distractions than him when in public ... no dogs belonging to relatives, etc.

I'd do exactly what Anne said about guests for now and remove him. I would not trust people to ignore him and I wouldn't put him under that stress.

I'd make a plan for the desensitizing work you will read about (which involves working with the dog outside his reactive range and gradually reducing it, but which is explained in step-by-step detail in many threads here; it's silly to try to reproduce it all in this post), and I'd start looking for a professional to help you.


Please post back with questions, etc., because I know there's a lot more; I'm trying not to type a book here (which no one will want to wade through anyway).

All JMO, of course!

Here are some thoughts...

You have mix of a couple of strong breeds & genitics can often play a big part in how dogs are hardwired to behave. Yes, training, socialization etc can temper what is there, but often the genetics win out.

I don't know how it happened that you aquired you pup at 4 weeks but, I will say that when pups are taken away from their litters are younger then 8 weeks they often misout on learing some social skills & just some canine 'manners' & confidence in general. I know that sometimes there are circumstances that this happens...but it is not in the best interest of the pup. They also learn about inappropriate nipping from one another.

You dog nipping at you & not knowing that you are not a bite toy is a leadership problem. The dog does not bite the pack leader. PERIOD. I would start limiting his freedoms until it is clear to him that you are in charge...not him. NILIF (nothing in life is free) is a good place to start. I would go back to the dog earning EVERYTHING until this is all VERY clear to him.

There is never any shame in going back to basics & retraining or restructuring you dog's life if & when you need to in order to get the compliance that you want & need as leader.

You need to find a way to keep him exercised...it does alot to help the dog be relaxed,less edgy, less confontational if you can burn up some of the pentup energy. The find it & other nmind games help to tire the dog out, also.

I know how difficult it is to desensitize dogs that have been attacked. My dogs have been attacked numerous times & my female has gotten very dog aggressive. She was never thrilled with other dogs, but now she is fearful of another attack & is ready to strick out more out of fear then actual aggression. Which most likely what you are experiencing with your dog. I have found that if I put my dogs in a down when someone is approaching & I ask them to keep a distance of about 10 feet(now that is with my dogs off leash out on a field) & move past at a normal pace, it is ok. If their dog is acting crazy or they are coming up fast...then it is a problem. I will ask for a watch me command & have them hold that eye contact until the dog passes.

So with that said...alot of the solution is to go to VERY SOLID obedience to start with. Then go back & start to add in distrations...not other dogs...just things one at a time...slowly & still be able to maintain that watch command under any of these distractions. The watch me command is my 'default' so to speak in a situation that I need to have my dog focus on me & not what is going on around them.

When out walking in a quiet place...if you see another dog coming...cross the street or whatever to keep the distance that you need to maintain a relaxed dog. You need to stay calm & mater of fact about it all or the dog will feed off of your bad 'energy' for lack of a better word.

I would see if you have someone that has a very nice calm non reactive dog that is maybe willing to help you eventually work on desensitizing you dog. I would never plan on him being good with other dogs...basically you just want him to ignore them. The same with people. Just put him away when you have company. I would work on the walks & what is encountered there. Give him peace in his home & just put him away & not stress him.

I have never used a haltie type leash...have seen them & heard mixed things about them. Use what works. Prongs CAN stimuate & ramp up an excited dog. A choke type collar may not have as great of an effect on a thick necked bully type dog. I don't know.

I would try to find a trainer in your area that has worked with fear aggressive dogs as hanving someone there with you while you are trying to deal with this & having the ability to actually see what is going on & be able to offer suggestions as to what may & may not work...will be a better option then the internet where we can't actually see things happening & instruct you right at that moment.

ETA...Connie & I were typing at the same time with some of the same info.

Great point that I wish I had said:

"There is never any shame in going back to basics & retraining or restructuring you dog's life if & when you need to in order to get the compliance that you want & need as leader."

Actually that should be on a T-Shirt!