Hi all! This is my first post so here it goes!

I have a 16 week old Shih Tzu that I've been raw feeding for about 4 weeks now. I give her boneless chicken meat for the most part, and about 3 meals a week she gets to work on a chicken quarter, or split breasts. Her poops have always looked pretty good (compared to my adult Beagle that switched to raw also) so I gave her a tiny bit of liver two nights ago, and everything seemed normal! I also started adding pork to her diet about a week ago... I accidentally just got a huge slab of pork butt and let her work on that, but then I read that I should introduce red meat one or two bites at a time... mixed with chicken to make sure everything's good to go.

So my questions are... do I seem to be doing this right? and when can I start giving her more and more red meat? Also, Macy is a gulper so I've read that I should give her huge pieces of meat/rmb to slow her down... but I don't know when to take it from her? I'm afraid if I leave it up to her she'll over eat and cause herself to bloat. So I "trade up" when I "think" she's had enough. I just feel her little body and try to keep up with her weight/food intake that way. Vet says she's ideal with her age and weight.

I do give both of the dogs a fish oil pill every day. As well as peanut butter and pumpkin and carrot baby food...

Any other supplements?

Thanks in advance for your feedback!!

Hi Kelsey and welcome to the forum. Kudos to you for feeding your pups RAW. The one thing which I would comment on is why not bones every day for the 16 week old (both dogs actually)? That little one needs lots of calcium for those growing bones, and I am not sure 3 x week will do the trick. The "pro" RAW feeders, Connie, Michael and Tracey (probably someone else I'm forgetting) will be better able to guide you on this however.

Ideally, you add ANY new item a little at a time - once you see poops are good to go, you can add a bit more. This would be the same with what ever new item is being introduced. (You know to hold out one unique meat, not to be introduced, unless your pup develops an alergy to the items she is currently eating?)

My guys get Vit. E, Fish Oil, plain, unsweetened yogurt and a raw egg once a week.

I hopet this helps, and I know the other folks will chime in to give you more advice on the calcium issue.

Edited by Barbara Schuler (07/13/2011 08:01 PM)
Edit reason: added a few words

Well... I guess I really don't have an answer to that question! (Why I don't feed bone everyday?) I have added it in more frequently in the past 2 weeks... after I got more comfortable with it and saw them crunch through a few meals! Buddy's poo looked really good tonight. Macy's always looks good. I let her work her way through a chicken quarter... usually lunch, dinner, and the first meal of the next day. Then boneless meat the rest of that day and the following day. Maybe start pairing up an egg on one of the boneless days, then? I did give both dogs a raw egg a few days ago and both seemed to like it and no tummy issues!

I haven't given them any yogurt. Would the regular 2% milk Fage Greek Yogurt be ok? And how much?

Thx!

Hi Kelsie! Welcome to Leerburg. Congrats on your puppy and on choosing to feed raw.

I think you're on the right track. But I would suggest a more consistent approach to feeding edible bones. A properly balanced raw diet isn't just a "meat" diet with occasional bones...bones are just as important as the meat. Especially for a growing puppy that needs the minerals to grow bones and teeth.

The trick with such a tiny puppy is to find bones that she can completely consume. Is she actually eating the bones in the chicken quarters, or just gnawing the meat off? The bone-in split breasts I'm sure she can eat. An even better idea, in my opinion, would be to find chicken backs or necks. Those are nice soft bones that almost any size dog can handle.

For the sake of easy math, let's assume your pup will grow to be a 12-pound adult. Puppies eat (about) 3% of their ideal adult weight in food per day. For your little one, that's (about) 6 ounces of food a day.

While it's not critical that you weigh every meal, that should give you an idea of how much she should be eating each day--probably divided up over 2 or 3 meals each day. So each meal is pretty small.

Some people will feed a "bony" meal, then follow it with a "meat" meal. Others try to feed a balance of meat and bone in each meal. There's no single right way to do this...but I don't think that 3 meals a week that include bone is enough. Especially if she's not crunching and consuming the bones.

(and not that you are, but a completely boneless raw diet is a nutritional disaster, especially for a puppy.)

Fish is another food that has edible bone. Sardines, mackerel (even canned varieties of these fish have bones in them) are easy to find. With a small puppy (that will grow up to be a small dog) your challenge will be finding bones she can totally consume, not just play with. Cornish hens (which are just juvenile chickens) are another idea. Perhaps rabbit. Anyway, work on the "bony" meals.

The "meat" part's easy. Beef, pork, turkey--anything without bones will fill out the rest of the meal. Small amounts of organ meat (liver, kidney, etc.) just as you are doing...eventually up to 10% of the diet. But go easy on organs in any one meal. Sounds like she's tolerating new foods well, though, so that's great--and you're lucky!

the pumpkin, carrots, eggs are all great. An occasional raw egg is good , but lightly cooked might be even better. You can consider eggs like "meat" when you are mentally weighing the meal. Other veggie things can be tossed in occasionally too--especially greens or berries. But any vegetable-based foods need to be either cooked, frozen, or pureed first. Raw veggies can't be digested by dogs---they come out just about like they went in. There's no harm in it, but they aren't getting any nutrition out of raw veggies.

Yogurt is another great addition to the diet. Plain unflavored, unsweetened yogurt. For her size, just a couple of teaspoons would be plenty.

Hopefully this rambling helps. Keep asking questions. We love to help new raw feeders!


eta: the best indication of when you've got the "right" balance of meat and bone is the quality of her poop. It should be quite firm and log-shaped, but not so firm that it is crumbly or that she has to strain to produce it. Too firm means too much bone. Too soft means (among other things) not enough bone. Soft poop can also be caused by overfeeding.

Thank you Tracy!! You are absolutely right about what's most challenging for me. Most of what I find are owners with GSDs or larger breeds in general. I know the diet is not breed specific, but when Macy can only have about half of a lb., if we're going by her "ideal weight", then her small meals are so small it doesn't teach her to rip, tear, and chew... So then I've read to give her pieces that are far too big for her to try to swallow whole... But then I won't know how much she's eating. It's a vicious cycle! My boyfriend calls it "paralysis by analysis"! She IS a little gulper and so another reason I like giving her big pieces is to slow her down.

LOVE the rambling! More please!?

Cornish game hens. Love those.

AND they are good roasted OR grilled for people! Always keep 'em in the freezer!

Oh. And she probably won't learn to rip, tear, and chew.

Dogs don't eat like us. They break down their food to a point it will fit down their throats. Some dog's are more ambitious than others and get themselves in trouble.

Best thing I've found, other than big food, is making meal time as relaxed as possible. Hard to do with foody dog's, but entirely possible. If Turbo can relax, anybody can relax. May take 5 years, but it can happen.

I guess I meant rip, tear, and chomp! Macy is definitely an "ambitious" eater, which is why I've started giving her whole pieces (to slow her down). My only concern is that I really have no way to tell if she's getting more than she needs. I just put the piece down on the towel and take it from her when I feel like she's had enough. With her being a toy breed, I just want to know how I should split up .6 lbs. 3x a day when that's such a small amount to begin with? I'm thinking it's not that big of a deal, and we're getting the hang of it!

Oh! And something I read above... Macy actually doesn't seem to have an issue crunching bones! So I'm going to grab a few cornish hens from the store and go from there!

I don't see anything wrong with your method if it's working. Measuring out 2-ounce meals three times a day could get anal-retentive (Inside Joke!)

So as long as you have some way of keeping track of approximate meal sizes, and an approximate balance of bone-to-meat, then your way is as good as any other.

You could make up "meals" that total 12 ounces (say, a 7-ounce piece of chicken back, a 4-ounce hunk of beef, and a 1-ounce piece of liver) and feed that over the course of two days.

Nutritional balance over time is the key. If, over the course of a week, you've gotten the right amount of bone, meat, organ in her, then the specific makeup of each serving isn't that critical.

Variety is an important part of it too, in my book. So aim to feed her as many different kinds of proteins as you can muster--introducing each one, one at a time, in small doses. Again, this is over time. This month, chicken and pork. Next month, chicken and turkey. Then turkey, fish, and beef. Just keep rotating in new foods, supplementing with small doses of veggies, eggs, fish oil.

It's not difficult. It's really no different than feeding a human child: fresh, species-appropriate foods, minimally processed, fed in abundant variety, in appropriate amounts.

BTW--good job on being able to offer food and then take it away without any squabbles. Lots of dogs would have "resource guarding" issues over this. She trusts you!

 Quote: tracy collins

I don't see anything wrong with your method if it's working. Measuring out 2-ounce meals three times a day could get anal-retentive (Inside Joke!)

And TRUST me... I can be very anal! lol... Which is why I have had to do sooo much research on raw feeding. There's a lot of info out there, and even 4 weeks in I just now feel like I'm "getting it".

 Quote: tracy collins

You could make up "meals" that total 12 ounces (say, a 7-ounce piece of chicken back, a 4-ounce hunk of beef, and a 1-ounce piece of liver) and feed that over the course of two days.

That is a fantastic idea! Now THAT I can do without feeling like I'm being too anal and worrying about balance!

Thank you so much for all the great advice! I'll work on chicken and pork for a minute, and then add another protein later on.

 Quote: tracy collins

BTW--good job on being able to offer food and then take it away without any squabbles. Lots of dogs would have "resource guarding" issues over this. She trusts you!

Thank you! Both of my dogs are really trusting about their food and me being near it! It might be from playing fetch and having them either drop the ball, or let me take it from their mouths. I never pull on anything in their mouths, I simply command them to "drop it!" and when they let go I slowly take it away to show them I will never rip something from them. And sometimes with the food (only with Macy) I'll "trade up" for a tiny smidgen of peanut butter or a frozen piece of liver! (Just started the liver, but they don't seem to mad at it!)

This has been very helpful! Just needed some advice and a little confirmation!