I have a 4 year old Belgian Sheepdog. I have had him since 9 weeks old. I spent a lot of time choosing the breeder, and I think he has a decent temperament. I was neutered at around one year old.

He crated trained easily and mastered basic commands well. We had 9 year old twins when we bought him – they are teenagers now. He’s been around other dogs and children a fair amount – we live in the burbs. He is very patient with my kids and tolerant of being handled.

He has trained on an electric fence, and since the initial training has never gone through it, though I am increasingly concerned that he finds it fun to bark and run the boundary. He’s never outside when we are not home. I would say he’s moderately territorial about people and vehicles going past the house. But again, he won’t go through the fence. He’s great off leash and responsive to “come” even with distractions.

So two years ago, he nipped a 6 year old neighbor girl. She was running through the yard (uninvited, which is irrelevant, and unexpected). He nipped at her butt. No skin was broken and it sound like it was a play scenario. I really like my neighbors and didn’t want my boy on the “Bad dog list” so I called them and talked about it, and actually hired the trainer of their choice to evaluate him. The trainer thought this dog had a great temperament and was eager to train. We worked together for a while, but didn't get that much out of it.

A couple of months ago, he bit again. We had overnight (for a number of nights) houseguest with young kids. I KNEW the dog was stressed – I certainly was. I could tell he was annoyed. I have no excuse. Basically, I didn’t insist on separating him when I knew the kids were on his nerves, because I was trying to be polite and didn’t want to imply the kids were annoying. Plus, he had always been great with kids apart from one “overly excited play” scenario (in my mind). He nipped one child’s hand. This was not a play situation. This was a “leave me alone situation.” This time there was blood, but nothing requiring medical attention – just a nip to the hand like a bad scratch.

I called my vet and had the dog boarded until the guests left. I told them what had happened, they contacted animal control, and the dog had a 10 day quarantine (mandatory in my jurisdiction when skin is broken).

So today I was out running my dog, and some kids asked if they could say “hi” to him. I used to allow this regularly. He’s always liked it. I guess for the last few months, I haven’t because of the nipping. But he was well exercised and relaxed, and I thought, “Ok, good time to prove that was not your normal way of behaving.” He nipped her! Totally unprovoked, nothing about the girl that inspired it. She was maybe 5 years old.

It’s sort of weird because there was blood but no apparent source. I actually think maybe he knocked the girl into a nose bleed, because there was blood from the nose but no nip mark or anything. I sent a child it to get the girl’s Mom. I put the dog on “down, stay” across the street so I could take care of her. The Mom came out, took the girl inside, and came out later to say she was okay and she couldn’t see a mark. I am so upset for her even if there wasn't any real damage. How traumatic for a little girl! How stupid of me!

Anyway, I have contacted a different trainer, bought the Leerburg obedience training video, and I want to address this.

So three questions.

(1) A I going to end up on the dumb/dumber page? Am I crazy to think I can work with this dog (with professional help) and have a reasonable outcome? He definitely has “nippy” instincts, a fair prey drive (he killed a squirrel once) and is getting more territorial. On the other hand, he has good nerves and is biddable in training and is a good household member.

(2) How should I have handled the dog when this nip occurred? I am afraid that from the dog’s point of view, I responded very casually (for both nips I personally witnessed). From my point of view, I didn’t want to upset a child more by correcting the dog sharply. In both cases, I separated the dog from the child, but I was calm and quiet because I wanted the keep the kids calm. Now, though, I am worried that the message the dog got might have been “no big deal.” I definitely didn’t give a level ten “your life is over” correction.

(3) What should I be reading first from the website? (I spent most of the day reading there already!) I don’t know if I am dealing with a dominant/aggressive dog or a ‘fearful’ dog or something else. I would say he’s very trainable and not “dominant” in our home (though he’s not as soft as our border collie was). He does scare people because he’s big and alert, but he doesn’t snarl or growl. He is a pretty relaxed, quiet boy. He’s not really fearful in general – not afraid of thunder or the table saw or disposal. I am watching the obedience video and the trainer should come in the next few days, but what other videos/reading from the website would you put as “read first?” There is just soooo much information, and I feel like I am trying to read everything at once.

Anyone who managed to read this whole long thing, thank you so much for your time. I would appreciate any comments.

All I have to say is don't let anyone close to the dog. Especially small children. Ever again.

Sounds harsh, but that's life. Nobody deserves to be disfigured. The previous bites are over and done with. Move on, but KNOW that you can't let anyone be close to this dog.

Even if at some point you feel he is rehabbed, still keep people away from this dog.

I agree with Mike. And I would work toward getting your dog used to kids from a great distance if at all. We do not know what triggers your pup so it is hard to prevent it unless kids are off limits no matter what.. I had a pup like that and had to put him away every time any kids came over. He acted a little different though. He would get so excited to see the kids and even let them pet him, but then without warning,-to my eyes anyway, he would snap, never bit anyone, but snapped in the air.
I hope you can work this all out. (Since you have not had a major incident happen where your dog really bites someone and I know you would feel horrible and your dog would probably be put down). So, I agree with MIke, chalk it up to experience and do not let your guard down. So sorry to hear this. I know how nerve wracking it is to be on guard all the time. sharon

Just echoing what has been said already. I'd say you can still work with him, but know that you will have to say no, absolutely not to those who want to pet him. Not only for their safety, but for your dog's peace of mind. Something about kids makes him agitated, so it is better for his safety and comfort if you keep everyone else away. Stop worrying about offending other people with choices you make. You are his only voice (because he tells them with his teeth) Be his protector first, a nice person second

I feel bad for you. I have a dog that can bite.
Sounds like herding. Controlling with the bite,the way he would if a calf got too close and annoyed him. They can bite SO fast, it's hard to correct.
You are going to have to keep him away from kids, I don't think you can train this 100% away --- there certainly would be no guarantee.
You don't want to end up having to put him down because some irate parent insists.

Dana, I do think this is workable with the help of a good trainer. By workable I mean the ability to provide the dog an environment where he will not be in a position to need to bite. I'm sure the trainer will be able to give you a good idea of what you can expect going forward.

I would like to add that an electric fence is not adequate protection for your dog or anyone who might happen to wander into the yard. I would not allow the dog in the yard without supervision and would have him tethered to me while out in the yard with him. If his territorial drive increases the electric fence will probably not be enough of a deterrent to keep him in the yard. Is it possible to fence an area?

1.) You can work with this dog, with professional help, and knowing that probably you will have to keep him away from young children. Controlling his environment is a must, and shame on you for seeing his anxiety and not doing anything about it when you had house guests.

2.) The correction fits the crime, and then is over with. Don't wait until he grabs a hand and latches on full bite to give him a correction. He needs to know within a second that he just did something bad, or he will continue because he doesn't know. It's your rule not to bite/herd/mouth small people(or any people), enforce it. If a young one asks if he can be petted, it's a simple answer ... no.

3.) I would see what your trainer has to say first, then go from there. A good starting point in general is the video on pack structure.

I had a very big dog once that thought it proper to correct small people outside of his family pack using his nose and mouth. If you were pestering him beyond his limits, he would push you down and walk away. If you persisted, he would put your hand or arm in his mouth and look at you. Then he would drop it and walk away. Usually at that point people got the hint. It would never get beyond that because I intercepted.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

All I have to say is don't let anyone close to the dog. Especially small children. Ever again.

Sounds harsh, but that's life. Nobody deserves to be disfigured. The previous bites are over and done with. Move on, but KNOW that you can't let anyone be close to this dog.

Even if at some point you feel he is rehabbed, still keep people away from this dog.

100% agree. I was actually bitten by a dog a few days ago. The dog that bit me has had issues with strangers, the owners have worked with him a lot, and thought that he was over it.

I was not even paying attention to the dog when he lunged up and bit my chest. Dogs like this can never be trusted.

I'm not sure if your dog is muzzle trained, but I would have a muzzle on him any time he is in a situation where he could potentially bite someone.

Hi Dana, and welcome.

I, too, have a dog that is not reliable around children. There is no doubt in my mind that under certain circumstances she would bite.

A trainer is a great idea, but I would echo what others have said. This is not a training issue, it's a management issue at this point. Simply put, you must take steps to keep the dog separate from kids.

Once you have wrapped your head around this idea, it's not terribly difficult to manage. I have a 9 year old who has kids over to our house regularly. The dog is either in her crate, or on our patio when kids are over. Period. No exceptions.

When kids (or adults, for that matter) ask to pet her when we are walking, I simply say 'No, she's still working on her manners, so I don't allow petting.'

And ditto to what others have said re the electric fence. It is no guarantee that he won't one day break through, and, of course, anyone can enter. Just takes one time to have a serious incident on your hands...

 Quote: michael_wise

All I have to say is don't let anyone close to the dog. Especially small children. Ever again.

Sounds harsh, but that's life. Nobody deserves to be disfigured. The previous bites are over and done with. Move on, but KNOW that you can't let anyone be close to this dog.

Even if at some point you feel he is rehabbed, still keep people away from this dog.

Ditto. You have ignored warnings; you have to commit to NEVER allowing him around kids again. This is doable, but it has to be absolute. If this dog bites again, you are 100% to blame.

Harsh, yes, but nevertheless true. Please take it in the spirit it's intended, which is to keep your dog alive, children unbitten, and you un-sued.


QUOTE: "He has trained on an electric fence, and since the initial training has never gone through it, though I am increasingly concerned that he finds it fun to bark and run the boundary. He’s never outside when we are not home. .... So two years ago, he nipped a 6 year old neighbor girl. She was running through the yard (uninvited, which is irrelevant, and unexpected). He nipped at her butt. "


However this happened, that hole has to be plugged. For me, that would mean this dog is never off-leash outside unless contained by a secure "real" fence with a secure gate.