OK, I have gotten Chloe and myself confused, I think. You know how it is, a puppy has so much to learn all at once. Thank goodness the potty thing seems to be handled, at least!

But not adding voice commands until the behavior is good has us mixed up. Or me, at least. Only voice cue she knows is Sit. My husband Jim taught her that.

Example - working on focus on me - I wave hand with treats around as a distraction -> Chloe looks at my eyes, but also sits -> I click and treat ... What does she think she is getting the treat for?

Am I over-worrying this? Will she figure it out as time goes on? She offers behaviors so fast, in combination. She stares at me continually, maybe I should leave off focus work, except she doesn't respond that great to her name yet.

Leash manners are improving, but how do I deal with it when she is not pulling, but dancing along backwards or sideways in front of me staring at me? What I'm doing is holding my temper while avoiding tripping over the puppy, and not rewarding as much until she's on one side or the other. It would help to have a flat lot - a vertical lot full of boulders means she knows exactly where we're going, few paths, few choices.

Problem is that she panics over strange new things, i.e. roofers making weird noises at neighbors house (hundreds of yards away, very rural), so when she's panicked, I C&T for getting her attention at all.

OK, I'm the one who is confused. But we have had some successes. Yesterday I got her to stand and watch the roofers (rather than try to race in terror back to the house), then to sit, down, etc. within sight of the roofers. Had to repeat it a couple times yesterday and today, but it's going faster today.

She may be very timid. However, she's also only 18 weeks old, and we have coyotes, bears, bobcats, etc. near our house most every night, plus neighbor dogs allowed to roam free, so there are reasons, from a puppy's perspective, to be pretty careful. So I'm waiting on jumping to conclusions that she's a fearful dog.

Any suggestions? How do you guys reward for just one thing at a time? ... ? She loves to work, loves to learn, picks up new things so fast! Sometimes I think I should use the voice commands just so ~I~ know what I'm trying to do!

Generally I repeat a behaviour no more than 5-10 times maximum before adding a voice cue. With a pup I would generally begin using the word for basics by the end of the first training session.

With the focus training, she is offering you a sit because she is confused but wanting to please you. I normally teach focus as a calm thing, puppy in front of me when I'm sat down - bring the treat up towards my face, few repetitions before adding the command. That way you may get a few 'clicks' in before she sits. I would leave off the distractions for a bit.

With the leadwork, I would stop when she dances around. If you think she is going to mess around, use a treat to guide her back to your side.

She's at the age when the world can be very scary, it sounds like you are doing the right thing. I would take her to a slightly less rural area to continue exposing her to things - especially if you think she may be on the shy side.

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about when to add a verbal command. Most of the time, when my dog was a pup, I would add the command after 10 or so repetions, usually later on the same day.
I agree that a pup might get confused about what you are rewarding if your timing is not the best and you are rewarding for multiple things in the same session.
Plus, she may not have a good grasp on the whole marker system.

Maybe try a day or so of just charging the marker, if you think she needs it, then a day of marking and rewarding "sit" with the verbal, since she aready knows that, then the next day move onto down, the goal being to get the verbal command learned etc.

Since she gives so much focus anyway, I would leave off teaching a 'watch me" command, just charging the mark (teaching that "yes" or a click, or whatever you use, means reward is coming) should get you her attention without having to wave the food around.

If she is a fast learner as you say, and is eager to learn, then go fast IMO!
Like I said, she may only take a day or less to learn each new command, with a verbal cue as well!

As far as her timidness at new things, sounds like you are doing exactly the right thing, taking her out and exposing her to new situations, with a lot of positive rewards for good responses.

Cross posted with Tanith!

We're on the same track at least

A few things to keep in mind -

A.) Starting commands needs to be done in a distraction free environment (ie. In your house). Introducing distractions too early is too much for young pups. Only after a command is solid without distractions, do you start to introduce light distractions, and so on. This is why puppy classes are a bad idea. You put them in a high distraction environment, and expect them to listen, totally not fair. Classes ARE good for proofing commands with distractions, if your at that point in training.

B.) Your pup is right around the age where she is going through a fear period of development. Allowing her to work through things at her own pace, and tolerance will set her up to succeed in the future. She will learn the tools that she needs to figure new things out. It is a proccess, and there is more then one fear period when even ordinary things can become scarey. Give her the time and patience to learn on her terms without pressure. Set her up for success. Having her face her fears does nothing, and will work against you. You are the leader, you are the protector, you are the boss. She needs to feel safe with you, and defer to you during times of stress.

Voice cues with physical gestures when giving a command is normally how people teach a dog a new behavior. A very small percentage of what you say verbally is actually communicating to the dog what you want. It's your body language, tone, inflection, and facial expressions is what the dog reads. Alot of it is body language and physical gestures.

If you really want to put your dog to the test to see if he/she knows their verbal commands, put them in a sit/stay, lay down on the floor in front of your dog , head closest to them with your feet going out (face up) , hands to your sides, feet together, and start giving voice commands without moving. See how they do.

Part of what your doing in early training is called behavior shaping with positive reinforcement. Click/treat for good behavior or a desired reaction, bad behavior is ignored. When I say ignored, I mean you dont look at them, you dont talk to them, and you dont touch them. Ignoring a young pup sends a strong message. Treats are random, not just during "training time", for what you consider good behavior. It doesn't require any verbal commands because what your teaching is behaviors that get rewards (what you want and expect as leader), and what gets her nothing. She will instinctively go for what gets her what she wants, this is also why dogs will start giving behaviors to get a treat. Because you have it, they want it, and now they have to figure out what they need to do to get it.

And the disclaimer - of course this is all IMHO.

It appears to me that this is a shaping vs luring issue.

Shaping is essentially waiting for your puppy to offer up behaviors that you like, and then marking/rewarding that behavior. For me, this always created the problem of the puppy learning the command and telling the difference between different commands and behaviors. It's not a bad technique, it's just something I found problematic for the reasons you've described. Luring, on the other hand, is assisting the puppy with a lure (something the puppy wants, i.e. food) into the behavior that you like. Typically, the lure is associated with a physical gesture. Dogs will always learn your physical gesture before they hear the verbal command. This is why people can't understand why their puppy won't sit out in a field when they've done it a thousand times when told to sit in the kitchen. The puppy associates you standing there in the kitchen looking down at them with your hands on your hips (or whatever) with sitting, rather than being told to "sit." The conditions in the open field are different, and because the puppy is attuned to your physical gesture, they're really not hearing you say "sit".

The solution to your problem, I believe, is that you need to tie a specific gesture to the behavior you want. First, LURE the puppy into the sitting position (using a gesture that supports the lure), then mark/reward when the puppy's butt hits the ground. Do this 100 times or so. Once your puppy learns your gesture for sitting, then add the verbal command prior to the gesture.

The final product should look something like: SIT, gesture, mark/reward. Make sure your verbal command (SIT) is not simultaneous to the gesture, but BEFORE it. After doing this 100 times or so, then start to wean the puppy off the gesture. In other words, give the verbal command, then start performing the gesture and see if the puppy starts to sit in anticipation of the gesture. The puppy has associated the gesture with sitting, and therefore the puppy sits at the gesture. At some point the puppy will associate the verbal command with the gesture and start to sit at the command in anticipation of the gesture. Once you've started giving the command, your gesture becomes less and less prominent over time, and is eventually eliminated completely.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Thanks, everybody. I'm waiting way too long to add the voice command. Saw some videos about waiting until the behavior was just right before adding voice - think I'll toss out that idea. How often does a puppy do something exactly right? And there is so much for her to grasp at this age, stuff is piling up, causing my confusion.

So we'll start today with voice on Down and Stand (which she can already do on hand signals). Will start with Touch for the touch stick. She will both touch it and follow it. It is her favorite, she jumps up and down when the touch stick comes out! She will also go away to touch a coffee can lid, and touch my hand. 3 words is enough for today.

She totally grasps the marker, is very motivated by food and play both.

I never trained with markers before, it is amazing. Once we get the Stay, I'll try the laying down thing, sounds very useful. Thanks much!

 Quote: Jody Steel

Thanks, everybody. I'm waiting way too long to add the voice command. Saw some videos about waiting until the behavior was just right before adding voice - think I'll toss out that idea. How often does a puppy do something exactly right? And there is so much for her to grasp at this age, stuff is piling up, causing my confusion.

So we'll start today with voice on Down and Stand (which she can already do on hand signals). Will start with Touch for the touch stick. She will both touch it and follow it. It is her favorite, she jumps up and down when the touch stick comes out! She will also go away to touch a coffee can lid, and touch my hand. 3 words is enough for today.

What's the rush? I become agitated just reading the plan for today.

ONE word is enough for today. JMO!

 Quote: Jody Steel

I'm waiting way too long to add the voice command. Saw some videos about waiting until the behavior was just right before adding voice - think I'll toss out that idea. How often does a puppy do something exactly right?

All the trainers that I have worked with refrain from "naming" a behavior until they "love it". What's the rush to naming a behavior? You don't need a name in order to click and treat.

When I was training my Malinois Toni the 2 on 2 off contacts for agility, it was a good month before I named the behavior. I wanted to make sure that she knew EXACTLY what was being named.

When teaching a new behavior, there are often other pesky behaviors going on. Like when teaching the "touch". She's looking at the stick, she's following the stick, she's looking at you, she's looking out the window at a dog barking, she's scratching her neck... you get the idea. If you name "touch" after only 5 reps, what exactly are you naming? Looking at the stick, then looking at you, then touching the stick? Or looking out the window, looking at you, scratching her neck? I'd prefer to know EXACTLY what I am naming before I name it. (Years ago I named a trick too soon with my yellow lab Brandy. She stretched once before doing a trick, I ignored that behavior and named the trick anyway. She did the bow before she would do ANYTHING from that moment on - bow/sit, bow/down, bow/speak, etc. I never could break her of that.)

Some trainers get so focused on the goal that they forget the journey. Have fun with your dog, and enjoy the journey.

 Quote: Kelly

(Years ago I named a trick too soon with my yellow lab Brandy. She stretched once before doing a trick, I ignored that behavior and named the trick anyway. She did the bow before she would do ANYTHING from that moment on - bow/sit, bow/down, bow/speak, etc. I never could break her of that.)

LMAO... How polite!