My MOm has a little shih-tzu who she put on prednisone for allergies. He became very depressed and lethargic so she took him off. I talked to her this morning and she was wanting to know about taking him for blood work because he wasn't acting himself. I told her I thought it was the after effects of the steroid use since he had only been off of them for 2 days.

Although I did not ask specifically, i think it has only been a month or so that he was taking them.

ANyone who has had experience with this, how long would you wait to allow it to get out of his system before going back to the vet? Does an effect like this generally go away? Thanks, Julie

She took him off steroids herself, abruptly?

She needs to call the vet asap, IMO.

http://www.vetinfo.com/how-to-taper-off-prednisone-dog-dosage.html

QUOTE:
The abrupt discontinuation of a prednisone dog prescription can be very dangerous.

How to Taper Off Prednisone Dosage

When the vet establishes that the dog no longer needs prednisone treatment, the dose cannot be simply discontinued starting from the following day, because the dog can get severely ill. The prednisone should be gradually tapered off. The vet may decide to taper off prednisone by halving the daily dose or administering a normal dose every second day to the dog. After one week, the dog can get less prednisone, or get the initial dose of prednisone once every three days.

After another week, the dog may get a small dose every day or the initial dose once per week. The tapering off of prednisone treatment typically takes between two and five weeks, depending on the initial dose of the drug, the disease the dog is being treated for and the reaction of the dog when the dose is lowered. You should always follow the recommendations of the vet and never forget to administer a dose of prednisone to your pet. You should never administer prednisone to your pet when it is not recommended.

Reasons for Gradual Discontinuation of Prednisone

The discontinuation of prednisone dog treatments should be gradual and performed over several weeks, because if this procedure is not respected, the dog may be affected by hyperadrenocorticism (commonly known as Cushing's disease) or even adrenal gland insufficiency. This is due to the fact that the cortisone will stimulate the adrenal gland and if the treatment is suddenly discontinued, the adrenal glands may either fail to produce the needed amounts of hormones or produce these hormones in excess. The adrenal glands have to get accustomed to not getting prednisone, by slowly reducing the amounts of prednisone the dog gets.

During the discontinuation process, the dog will have to be monitored. The activity of the adrenal glands is important and if there are any abnormalities, the dose of prednisone may need to be increased, until the dog no longer displays symptoms of impaired adrenal gland activity.

He was taking a half a pill every other day. So that would mean today he would be due for the half a pill. I'll have her give him another maybe quarter pill until she can call the vet back on Monday.

Ok, she gave him one. That should hold her over till she can find out what stepdown schedule the vet wants to use. When she told me that awhile ago I was thinking, wow half a pill every other day is so small, but duh! so is the dog. I would have thought, too, that going from a half ill every other day and stoping woul dnot be a big deal, but I see that it still is.

I cautioned her against using them at all. They almost killed my previous rottie, and I wouldn't use them again unless there was a life or limb threatening issue. I know they have their place, but I don't like them. Thanks Connie, you probably save d this little guy from being sick. She said the vet didn't tell her not to stop them without telling her first. Noooo kidding....

I just want to make a couple of statements regarding the use of steroids for allergies. I too, am cautious when using them, but they are a lifesaver for dogs that are miserable, and when used CORRECTLY, they don't kill dogs.

When steroids are used for disease such as inflammatory bowel disease, liver disease, etc., the steroid dose is given at a 'therapeutic' level - many times higher than a dermatology vet would use for itchy skin. These are the doses that can cause some long term side effects, especially if the dog is not monitored with blood tests to make sure his liver and other systems are tolerating the drug.

But the amount that is used to break a cycle of itching in an allergy dog is much less, and not as frequent. A good conservative derma vet will prescribe perhaps a fourth of the therapeutic dose either every other day or every third day, just to calm down the itching. This avoids the horrible cycles of the dog biting and scratching, which cause self inflicted wounds to the skin and results in infection by bacteria and yeast. Then the dog must go on antibiotics and anti-yeast meds to try and get the wounds healed - and usually have to include a higher dose of steroid!

Maintenance is the key to an allergy dog - good diet, knowing what they are allergic to and trying to keep them away from those things, frequent baths, FLEA CONTROL, fish oil for inflammation, vacuuming, clean bedding, etc. But at the times when all these things aren't enough, low dose steroids are a god-send to a miserable dog.

The case with my rottie is irrelevant to this story, so I will refrain from telling it, and i have absolutely no idea what a small dose would be for any dog, so I have no idea how the vet is dosing him. You have to balance what is going on with the dog to the potential side effects of the med you are using. She decided to do it, and now she is dealing with a very depressed and lethargic dog. With better luck, it would have worked wonderfully and he would have been a happy non-itchy dog. He got red on the belly and itchy. Allergy meds made him sleepy. SO they suggested this.

I don't fault her at all for trying it. or anyone else, and there may come a day when I wil have to give them to a dog of mine again for something. But I will try EVerything else first, same as I will for myself. i took them twice, and it was terrible. As for the rottie, she had a hot spot of all things, a bad one yes, but I didn't know any better, so I gave them to her and she started urinating every time she went to sleep, and was so upset she refused to come in the house, so she had to be put in the basement. The undiagnosed cancer tumor in her leg, which is a whole story in itself that should have been diagnosed by the vet but wasn't, took off like pouring gasoline on a fire, so after she struggled out of the 2 month long deep deep depressin she was in, she went down hill so fast in her ability to walk that we ended up having to have to have her put to sleep. But thankfully not before she got her mood back, and was able to enjoy life the best she could for awhile with a tumor in her shoulder.

SO yes, I do feel ike the steroids were a big part of killing her. They took away her enjoyment of life for an extended period of time, barely wanting to get out of bed, and cut her life short by suppressing her immune system and letting the cancer flourish. it will be a last resort for me to use them again.

Mom had to do what she thought was best for her dog. Now she just wants to get him better from the meds. I warned her about them because like is so typical, the vet doesn't tell you about the uncontrolled urinating, or apprently not to stop them abruptly. SO you don't get to really make informed decisions when you just listen to the vet. here, take this, it wil make it better. And MOm is elderly and no computer. Unless she asks me, there isn't an internet to sit down at and do research that we all take so much for granted. I know it's easy for me to forget the wealth of info that we have at our fingertips and what it is like without it.

Edited by Julie Sloan (07/14/2012 01:02 PM)
Edit reason: repetition

have her ask the vet about hydroxyzine for allergies its what we prescribe here and have seen good results

 Quote: Lori Hall

I just want to make a couple of statements regarding the use of steroids for allergies. I too, am cautious when using them, but they are a lifesaver for dogs that are miserable, and when used CORRECTLY, they don't kill dogs.

When steroids are used for disease such as inflammatory bowel disease, liver disease, etc., the steroid dose is given at a 'therapeutic' level - many times higher than a dermatology vet would use for itchy skin. These are the doses that can cause some long term side effects, especially if the dog is not monitored with blood tests to make sure his liver and other systems are tolerating the drug.

But the amount that is used to break a cycle of itching in an allergy dog is much less, and not as frequent. A good conservative derma vet will prescribe perhaps a fourth of the therapeutic dose either every other day or every third day, just to calm down the itching. This avoids the horrible cycles of the dog biting and scratching, which cause self inflicted wounds to the skin and results in infection by bacteria and yeast. Then the dog must go on antibiotics and anti-yeast meds to try and get the wounds healed - and usually have to include a higher dose of steroid!

Maintenance is the key to an allergy dog - good diet, knowing what they are allergic to and trying to keep them away from those things, frequent baths, FLEA CONTROL, fish oil for inflammation, vacuuming, clean bedding, etc. But at the times when all these things aren't enough, low dose steroids are a god-send to a miserable dog.

I agree (from more experience than I wish I had been through) with every word here.

I made the last paragraph bold because Pred, IMO, is part, PART, of the maintenance. And if it's needed, it's used in the lowest possible (but still effective) dose needed, often just to break a cycle, as Lori describes.

But a huge part of the reason we say over and over that derm is a specialty for a reason, and an allergic dog needs a derm or allergy specialist, is right there in that bold paragraph.

Sadly, too many owners stop at the GP vet level, where the two pieces of advice are (much too often): change the food and give Pred.

I wish I could get this across without sounding like a rant against GP vets, because it's so NOT. I love my GP vet. But she is not a derm vet (and doesn't try to be). The specialist knows so much more than Pred and waiting-room food. And that's the way it should be .... that the specialist in this very complicated and rapidly-developing body of knowledge is the one who knows about it. A GP vet cannot be a specialist in all the specialties.

I get wound up over this, I know, because I have been through (loooooong ago) and seen and read about so many others going through dumping a pile of money at the GP vet's office and then (maybe!) finally going to the derm vet where they could have gone hundreds (or thousands) of dollars earlier and saved the dog a ton of misery and themselves a ton of frustration.

PS

My atopic dog is managed with an excellent diet, Hydroxyzine (which is an individual thing, BTW; different dogs benefit from different antihistamines, and many do not benefit from them; the number goes up if they are used in conjunction with fish oil), probiotics, fish oil, rinses and baths, identifying and removing as many of his allergens as possible, meticulous FLEA CONTROL (by far the most common allergy in dogs is flea saliva dermatitis), and everything else that Lori mentions.

My dog is fortunate; he needs only a little low-dose Pred to get him past his worst times in his two bad seasons.

I have also had atopic dogs who needed more like what Lori's dog needs.

Allergies in dogs, who are animals with their histamine receptors mostly in their skin .... IMO, no one knows how frustrating this can be unless they have experienced it.

And climbing back off the soapbox.

Thanks Donald.

Connie, I am going to search one up for her. She is 750 miles away from me. Call and check them out for her, and get her to go. That is exactly what she is doing. Spending lots of money at the GP. I have no idea what kind of vet they are in terms of good, not good. And Mom does not have much money.

As much good as they can do, I still hate steroids, and will only use them as a last resort. I'd use them if I had to, but only when all else has failed. That is just my IMHO. Everybody has one. :-) Thanks all. This may be just what she needs. J