Recently I posted in the dog-on-dog aggression forum about my 2yo spayed APBT/Retriever mix, Ruby. After posting on the webboard and watching basic obedience/dealing with aggressive dog DVDs from Leerburg I began the groundwork program immediately and started to work on Ruby's intense dog aggression. To read the post go here:
http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32870&page=1#369640

After about a week and a half of the groundwork program I began to let Ruby out again, always leashed within the house and always leashed outside. She has since been kept seperate from the husky mix and has begun to become more comfortable with the other dogs in the house. However, I feel I need some advice on progressing with her training further.

Since the groundwork program and really realizing the severity of her dog aggression I have been able to identify two forms of aggression with her, fear and possession/guarding. In regards to possession of food, toys, beds, warm spots next to the fireplace, and attention from me or my boyfriend it has been a moderation/prevention type program. She is never left with toys of her own or if she has a bone/chew she is in her crate or in a separate room to enjoy it. She is put in her crate during mealtimes and fed in it as well. She receives attention after the dominant male in the house and we try not to overdo it. As for taking this further, we sometimes let our dominant male have a bone in the living room and she is required to lay near us with a separate bone. She is rarely threatened by his presence(or if so I know it immediately and remove her from the situation). After a short period of them being calm together we go on a walk, the bones are removed, and we return to everyday routine. This is done 3-4 times a week. I was wondering if anyone has any other advice on how to stop aggression over certain items? I am fine with putting her up during mealtimes and for feeding her, but I would prefer to curb the dog-on-dog aggression over attention or beds.

As for fear aggression, this is the main form of aggression that is present with Ruby. Since realizing this and her triggers we have come a long way. She can now happily co-exist in the same room as two of the dogs in the house (still shows extreme anxiety with the husky adolescent) and even engages in play sometimes, along with some submissive gestures. However, she still becomes nervous about them sometimes. She has learned to come to me when she feels this and I allow her to lay under my legs or sit with me between her and the other dog or I crate her depending on how nervous she is. If her limits are stretched with the other dogs, she will first growl at them, then lunge. She has not lunged since the groundwork, but due to her history I do not doubt it would happen if allowed. She did reach the growling point about a week ago with one of the dogs, which was immediately corrected by myself and she was returned to the crate for a day or two of groundwork. I just want to know if anyone has any advice on how to stop these random bouts of anxiety with her. The other dogs are older and calmer and don't do anything to provoke this reaction with her. I am working on desensitizing but with the growling I am not sure how to react. I don't want to reward her nervousness, but I don't want to allow growling/other aggression.

We have a lot of loose dogs/strays roaming our neighborhood and since beginning her aggression training Ruby is not allowed to interact with these dogs (not that I encouraged it before). Now when we approach a strange dog it is clear she doesn't want to interact (looks away, puts me between her and the other dog). These are signs I could have overlooked in the past and since figuring out she is fearful of dogs to the point of aggression, they could have been a strong trigger for her in the past. Although I don't want interaction with strange dogs, I feel like her fear of all dogs in general could be something about her that limits our progress with the dog in her pack. I could be wrong about this, any input would be appreciated.

She has shown definite improvement overall, I am not so interested in progressing her interactions with the husky adolescent because he is a roommate's dog and I am moving in six months but the dominant male will be a lifelong packmate for her and I would really like to see her progress with him.

Thank you all for any input that you may have!

Well, I'll start with a couple of questions about the pack tension and some suggestions about the strange-dog reactivity.

"As for taking this further, we sometimes let our dominant male have a bone in the living room and she is required to lay near us with a separate bone. "

Why??





What triggered this?

"She did reach the growling point about a week ago with one of the dogs, which was immediately corrected by myself and she was returned to the crate for a day or two of groundwork."






"... when we approach a strange dog it is clear she doesn't want to interact (looks away, puts me between her and the other dog)."


This is something YOU should do. That is, YOU put you between her and the trigger. Remember this from Steve from your other thread? "The fact that she feels the need to defend herself .... "


This reactive dog is not a dominant-aggressive dog, from anything I read in either thread. NILIF was absolutely a good protocol to implement, but I'm not reading in this new post about desensitizing.

Did you have a chance to read any of those links provided in the November thread about desensitizing?

Methodical desensitizing is the next step, IMO, for the strange-dog reactivity, and part of that is the polishing of basic ob and the reinforcement of focus on you.

But she won't be able to focus on you the way you need her to unless she sees you as her protection between herself and her strange-dog triggers. (This is why I pick on that situating of yourself between her and her strange-dog trigger -- not her having to hide herself behind you. It may sound subtle, but her perception has to be that YOU are in charge, that YOU are her leader and protector, that YOU have the job of keeping her safe.)


Are you marker training?

"I am fine with putting her up during mealtimes and for feeding her, but I would prefer to curb the dog-on-dog aggression over attention or beds."

Are you the boss of this, or is the "dominant male"?

I ask this because I personally don't care where in the pack hierarchy my dogs perceive themselves.



I think you will get much more feedback.

I would NEVER have any toys or bones etc out in the house.

All dogs would have to be in crates when fed meals or given bones. I would not have a dog out & another in a crate when given bones. EVERYBODY would be crated. There has to be no favoritism shown.

I know that there is a pack order within the pack...but I don't feed into that. I decide who gets fed first or petted first etc. I usually will pick a different dog each time. Not the same dog first. Just my way of showing the dogs that I make decisions on attention & all resources not them.

I don't allow any aggression in my pack. The offender would be on leash at all times with a prong collar & corrected for any sign of aggression & rewarded with a very special treat (only given for that purpose)when the dog ignores the other dogs.

I would be sure that the other dogs are not doing anything to trigger her anxiety by any eye contact, or body language etc. Especially if one of the dogs is a dominate dog ( or thinks that he is or has been allowed to think that he is). There are VERY VERY few truly dominate dogs. Although I just don't allow any dominate displays of any kind. If she is an insecure dog you want to do all that you can to increase her self confidence.

I would, over time, like to desensitize the dog to the presence of the other dogs within the pack(not outside dogs..I don't allow my dogs to interact with dogs outside of their pack). Allowing closer proximity to the other dogs over time. But always on leash. But I would always be prepared to take a step back if there is any backsliding.

The goal is to have peace in the home. The dogs don't need to be buddies, but they need to be able to live in peace. The house is for quiet time. Everyone lays on their bed & relaxes & settles. No playing or jumping around is allowed. In this type of situation...I would give each dog a bed or place that is their's ALONE. No other dog is allow on that bed but the one who's be it is. PERIOD. You need to be consistant at all times about this.

It may take months to get peace or it may not ever happen. Some dogs just don't EVER get along & need to be kept separated. Just what you have to be willing accept & to do if needed, if you have multiple dogs.

I really don't know where to start on this thread.

A general observation might include some thing to the effect that I own the beds, bones, toys, food, bowls, whatever, and a dog or dogs get access to any of that stuff on my terms.

If a dog acts out toward another dog I let both dogs know I'm not thrilled. I'm not Dick Tracey and I really don't care who is in the right. I don't like the behavior and I correct it.

In my lifetime I would never act as a barrier on the floor between two dogs with bones to keep the peace. If either acted up both would lose the bones. More to the point, they would fully appreciate that the behavior was a no no.

I have four dogs and there are four beds but the beds are mine, and any dog can plop down on any vacant bed at any time. If I even sense a dog is intimidating another to claim a bed I make them all move around to different beds. I own the beds. Get along or get moved. Get along or lose a bed.

The only thing where sharing is not allowed is at meal time. They each have a bowl and a spot. They are not allowed to visit another bowl until the dog eating at its bowl abandons it but usually I pick the bowls up immediately. My food, my rules.

If I want peace in the house, and on my terms, the dogs have to get along. I am the leader and they are all equal. Period. I care for my dogs differently for their personalities but I treat them all equally. I have no favorite. If I had a favorite I would have disquiet and I do not like strife.

Dogs have different skills and personalities but when they are together they have to get along.

I must be the most miserable dog owner of all time because I do not tolerate bad behavior. And bad or unwanted behavior is mine to define.

Too many times owners over think their relationships with their dog or dogs. I don't understand creating an atmosphere in the home that sets as the highest priority catering to the idiosyncrasies of each and every dog all day long.

The dogs are with me most of the time but I go through the day without wondering which dog will do what to cause a ruckus. Of course my world didn't happen over night but it is the result of a consistent approach to living with the dogs.

And foster dogs, I have found, readily adapt to the rules by observing and being around the resident dogs. I am a believer in setting an atmospheric and reinforcing it.

If a dog tries to take a bone away from another I immediately retrieve the bone. The bone is out of the picture for awhile, or maybe I'll toss it into the corner and the dogs know it stays there.

I must be miserable but I long ago decided to live my life with dogs in it not live my life catering to the behaviors of the dogs in it.

This site provides all kinds of information for working with dogs but it seems to me first of all it provides information about how a person should be trained. Start with yourself and figure out if any of the issues with the dog or dogs could have its origin in your leadership style. Lead or follow the dog, and some folks just endure and get out of the way of their dog.

Three females and male in the house. Equals. The boss is the cat.

I just reread this and it makes no sense. I missed the point entirely. So, never mind.

Mike, you may have thought it didn't make sense but I thought it was quite good. I would eventually like to get a second dog and I like to make note of any points on managing a two (or more) dog household.

Anne, very good points as well.

"Are you the boss of this, or is the "dominant male"? .... I personally don't care where in the pack hierarchy my dogs perceive themselves."


Ann said: "I know that there is a pack order within the pack...but I don't feed into that. I decide who gets fed first or petted first etc. I usually will pick a different dog each time. Not the same dog first. Just my way of showing the dogs that I make decisions on attention & all resources, not them."

Mike said: "I am the leader and they are all equal. Period."


I think you will encounter this POV again and again among experienced multiple-dog pack
leaders.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I think you will encounter this POV again and again among experienced multiple-dog pack
leaders.

Another pack owner here that shares the above sentiments. Mike's post articulates my style better than I could have said it myself. Unpleasantness of any kind simply isn't tolerated. And I alone get to decide what's unpleasant in my house. Dogs do not "own" anything, nor do they get to "decide" anything.

Does that mean I am a gestapo? No. I'd say I'm a pretty popular figure around here, considering that I provide two delicious meals a day, plus snacks, toys magically appear and disappear under my power, and I lead us all on exciting adventures. These are the five most spoiled dogs in Christendom. The only thing they are required in return is to follow a very short list of rules, the chief of which is "keep your teeth to yourself."

I think I could have better articulated my post. I will feed less into how they view themselves, that's definitely something I have overlooked (or perhaps thought too much about). There seems to be a lot of confusion over this but let me be clear when I say that the "dominant male" in her life is not a dominant dog, but Ruby spends the majority of her time (when she's not nervous about him) being submissive with him: belly up during play or giving his tonsils a good wash. I could have phrased that better, my bad.

I want guidance more into how I can control her fear aggression. It has helped to know that she doesn't display dominant aggression and it is instead fear based or guarding resources. Either will not be tolerated, but the guarding I understand is more preventable (toys in crates, fed in crates, food bowls go up after eating).


I have read the desensitization links and continue to try these methods but it feels like I have stalled out in her progression. She has improved a lot but she will still become nervous about her packmate when they simply don't provoke that reaction at all. He could be laying on the floor resting peacefully and Ruby would suddenly become nervous about him. This may have to do with her background (a rescue pit mix in a county that doesn't have a good reputation with this breed) or genetics but I'm just hoping that she will come back from this.

@Connie: at first I put myself between her and strange dogs, but she now does it herself most of the time. Strange dog=get behind mom. If she doesn't do it automatically then I put myself between her and the dog.

@Mike: some good points in your post, along with some confusing ones. I definitely use the "get along or get moved" when she becomes a brat about beds/spots.

After reading all of your input, I feel like my training with Ruby is still in an earlier stage than I thought.

"I would prefer to curb the dog-on-dog aggression over attention or beds."

Then do it. Just do it. Don't give another thought to the "dominant male" and what he wants.

I have a pretty forceful "HEY!" for any dog who might be posturing.

IMO, all that concern for the "dominant male" and first and more attention and affection for him is going to go a long way toward increasing these problems. So good that you are going to stop that.

"As for taking this further, we sometimes let our dominant male have a bone in the living room and she is required to lay near us with a separate bone."

I would never do this. Not now, with the tension, and probably not ever. It's not productive. It escalates anxiety.

"She is rarely threatened by his presence(or if so I know it immediately and remove her from the situation)." What is happening that she feels threatened?


The dogs are never together unsupervised, right?

Why does she have to interact with the Husky if you are moving out in six months? Is this very close quarters?