A little over a month ago, after consulting dog behaviorists and trainers in my area, and finding no one with experience nor understanding of LGD. I came here on Leerburg as a new Board User, looking for ideas and suggestions and hoping to find someone who had experience with the Kuvasock. I had described Ziva, 5 months at the time, as a hard dog bitch, dominant with food aggresion. She was out of control jumping constantly, biting and showing theet. Even though I am a novice dog owner, previously owned Doberman Pinchers and Bouvier des Flandres, I realized that things were going down hill and that a decision had to be made about keeping the pup or not. I also knew that what (I) was doing was not accurate and that I was unable to communicate with the dog, therefore no bonding was created except confrontation one after an other.

The breeder was of little help. All she suggested did not work. I believe that herself had not have experienced dealing with a pup that had Ziva's temperment and being in Belgium and me in France made it difficult. Having paied a nice sum of money for the dog and knowing that having a refund was clearly out of the question and more, I was developing love for the pup I decided to go in head first and try again. I was concern about Ziva's futur....and ours. But I knew somehow that the problem was not that the dog was mean....even though I was not sure of that, but I could tel by her reactions depending of the situations that (I) was causing most of it.....I needed to change, I needed to learn how to deal with her and her understand what was proper behavior and what was unacceptable behavior.

After a day or two telling my story on Leerburg I met people that were experienced with dogs but mostly that were concerned about my situation and so kindly shared any thoughts that they could think of being usefull to Ziva and I.

Then came Willie Tilton....and this tread is about how things have changed and how now the thought of sending Ziva away is pretty much out of my mind. Yes it has only been a month and a few weeks that I started to work with Willie, and yes she is still evaluating the dog's temperment and not giving me a concreat diagnostic....She wants to stay on the safe side for all of us involved. Her being in Tennessee and me in the south of France makes it impossible for Willie to be physicaly here but with skype and videos she can see the dog and how she reacts to specific situations. BUT the progress is undeniable.

So we started with a dog that was out of control, and a disperate owner is now with a 6 months, 70+lbs puppy that is controled and with the food issue in process.....I have a dog that is rarely jumping and barely biting. I have now a dog that listen to words and is asked to re-think some behaviors on her own and comes up with the right idea....I have now a dog that is controling herself at her very best and is successful 85% of the time. What I read as agression is actualy High Pray Drive, what I discribed as biting is Mouthing and a form of Communicate. And because I now know how to read all these signs I am capable to communicate with her and have her controling her urges that are pack false behavior. And less not forget the gain in confidence I am experiencing. Ziva feels that and looks in me for leadership.

The dog that was not listening has this alert look in her eyes now when I say things to her and she does everything in her power to comply. She initiates games when it is play time, shows me games she likes and she even wants to be close to me most of the time. She is presently curled up under the desk as I type this.

Willie had suggested that I start a new thread because the first one "educating a Kuvas puppy" is getting very long and it is to hard to get the facts on how far Ziva has come since early May.

so the update is:

I still do not do obedience training with Ziva, I load the mark 3 times a day for 50 marks, mark every thing she does that I like....it is a bit like if the dog is self teaching itself.

I have been using a prong for 2 weeks on her and great results.

To control the high pray drive, I discharge the drive by playing tud or fetch till she shows fatigue or quit on her own. I do that when she starts to mouth my hands, or get into mischief like jumping on the couch. I had to evaluate the play time versus the rest period. We are at about 15 min play for 2 to 3 hours rest. After one day doing that, Ziva actualy went on the couch with the ball in her mouth, just sitting there suggesting a play time session. Before she would get on the couch, hide her head behind the cussions and fighting when told to get down. Now I just have to say down, when she has 4 on the floor I mark it and give a treat....I can do that four or five time then she doesn't persist.....till the next time lol but at least there are no more confrontations and she actually uses the couch to communicate that she needs to play or else she will burst....she associates what it takes to interact with me besides arguing.

She uses her line that she has on to play with the cat. She takes it in her mouth and waves it above the cat's head. She doesn't try to brake the poor thing in two bitting its back anymore.

She releases pretty much instantly what ever she has in her mouth on command and in exchange for a treat. Even when playing tug, she could be pulling and having this playfull growl, if I say "leave it" she will.....

The food issue is not cured if I may say it that way, it is controled by her eating in a secluded area where she doesn't feel threaten and in October Willie and I will discuss how to address this issue.

The pulling on walk has pretty much diminish by itself with the prong but since a few days ago she tested the limit where she could go until feeling uncomfortable by the prong.....my home work on that is to walk in zigzag when she does that, not harshly, but that indicates to the dog that she has to stay focuss on me....2 walks doing that and the ditch doesn't have much interest it seams.

She potty in ereas I suggest 95% of the time on walks now....peeing always, pooping not always. She even leads me to spots I usualy tell her where to do it.

Recently, Ziva has showed not liking to much when I fill in her holes she dug up.....I filmed 2 episodes of that and sent them to Willie. The one with the shovel is definitaly play language, the one with my foot we will discuss today in our meeting. The first video was not clear enough so I had to send a new one and did that last night.

So now the behavior Ziva needs to work on are:

- Dealing with the dog next door. I have some work to do about that. Ziva is not allowed to have unsurpervised time in the garden. So with the prong on I should start to correct her when the puffy white dog comes in the corner and tease her. I have to review with Willie today about that, I am not exactly certain how to deal with that.

- The jumping when excited greeting people. Now she is told to lay down....she tries her best but the excitment is to great she can't stay down long.....with me after I leave for a while, she greets me jumping but I am successfull to have her stay down....mind you it takes a lot of work for her to stay down.....with my husband and strangers it is much harder.....

- Not to react to other dogs barking behind their fences on walks.

- The food issue but that is for later.

Stay tuned for updates lol....and please if you think of anything that might help the progress Ziva and I are making, I would looooove to read them.

au revoir et merci

Bon travail!!!

Thank you for sharing your experience here as many will benefit from your work.

I look forward to reading of your progress. I'm proud of you Solange! Enjoy your dog :-)

I say good work too!

sounds good solange , your hard work is paying off .

with respect to the tug . . . you are correct in using it to engage her prey drive , it will become very useful in the future as a reward .

having said that , by playing with her until she is either tired or quits , you are allowing her to dictate the terms of the game . remember this , they are your toys : YOU decide how , when , where and for how long YOU want to play .

a 15 minute tug session is long . stop the game when you can see that she still wants to play . quickly and without any fuss , trade the tug for a food reward . put her away or snap on a lead and leave the area .

as for the dog next door , my first question is : is it necessary for your dog to be out there to be teased by the other dog ?

can she be drawn away from the fence when the other dog is there ? i'd try something like this . . . do your play / tug sessions with her when you know that other dog is in her yard . at first , you may have to be on the other side of your yard , and have your dog on a line to keep her engaged with you . don't get mad at her if she shows interest in the fence , just work harder to keep her engaged with you . finish the session , then bring her inside .

my thinking here is that by correcting her for just being interested in the dog on the other side of the fence , you are just going to raise her stress level about that dog , and unless you are going to be out there supervising 100% of the time , you probably won't " correct " her out of the attraction . make what you have on your side of the fence much more interesting than what is on the other side of the fence .

those 15 minute tug sessions ? you'd be better off doing three 5 minute sessions over the course of an hour in the backyard .

I have enjoyed reading your journey with your very beautiful dog. More than her progress I am amazed at yours.

Your commitment to Ziva was obvious from your first post. You never took offense but stayed the course, taking and using what worked for you. Aren't the people on this forum amazing?

Ziva is blessed to have you and congratulations on your progress.

 Quote: Solange Boivin

A little over a month ago, after consulting dog behaviorists and trainers in my area, and finding no one with experience nor understanding of LGD. I came here on Leerburg as a new Board User, looking for ideas and suggestions and hoping to find someone who had experience with the Kuvasock. I had described Ziva, 5 months at the time, as a hard dog bitch, dominant with food aggresion. She was out of control jumping constantly, biting and showing theet. Even though I am a novice dog owner, previously owned Doberman Pinchers and Bouvier des Flandres, I realized that things were going down hill and that a decision had to be made about keeping the pup or not. I also knew that what (I) was doing was not accurate and that I was unable to communicate with the dog, therefore no bonding was created except confrontation one after an other.

The breeder was of little help. All she suggested did not work. I believe that herself had not have experienced dealing with a pup that had Ziva's temperment and being in Belgium and me in France made it difficult. Having paied a nice sum of money for the dog and knowing that having a refund was clearly out of the question and more, I was developing love for the pup I decided to go in head first and try again. I was concern about Ziva's futur....and ours. But I knew somehow that the problem was not that the dog was mean....even though I was not sure of that, but I could tel by her reactions depending of the situations that (I) was causing most of it.....I needed to change, I needed to learn how to deal with her and her understand what was proper behavior and what was unacceptable behavior.

After a day or two telling my story on Leerburg I met people that were experienced with dogs but mostly that were concerned about my situation and so kindly shared any thoughts that they could think of being usefull to Ziva and I.

Then came Willie Tilton....and this tread is about how things have changed and how now the thought of sending Ziva away is pretty much out of my mind. Yes it has only been a month and a few weeks that I started to work with Willie, and yes she is still evaluating the dog's temperment and not giving me a concreat diagnostic....She wants to stay on the safe side for all of us involved. Her being in Tennessee and me in the south of France makes it impossible for Willie to be physicaly here but with skype and videos she can see the dog and how she reacts to specific situations. BUT the progress is undeniable.

So we started with a dog that was out of control, and a disperate owner is now with a 6 months, 70+lbs puppy that is controled and with the food issue in process.....I have a dog that is rarely jumping and barely biting. I have now a dog that listen to words and is asked to re-think some behaviors on her own and comes up with the right idea....I have now a dog that is controling herself at her very best and is successful 85% of the time. What I read as agression is actualy High Pray Drive, what I discribed as biting is Mouthing and a form of Communicate. And because I now know how to read all these signs I am capable to communicate with her and have her controling her urges that are pack false behavior. And less not forget the gain in confidence I am experiencing. Ziva feels that and looks in me for leadership.

The dog that was not listening has this alert look in her eyes now when I say things to her and she does everything in her power to comply. She initiates games when it is play time, shows me games she likes and she even wants to be close to me most of the time. She is presently curled up under the desk as I type this.

Willie had suggested that I start a new thread because the first one "educating a Kuvas puppy" is getting very long and it is to hard to get the facts on how far Ziva has come since early May.

so the update is:

I still do not do obedience training with Ziva, I load the mark 3 times a day for 50 marks, mark every thing she does that I like....it is a bit like if the dog is self teaching itself.

I have been using a prong for 2 weeks on her and great results.

To control the high pray drive, I discharge the drive by playing tud or fetch till she shows fatigue or quit on her own. I do that when she starts to mouth my hands, or get into mischief like jumping on the couch. I had to evaluate the play time versus the rest period. We are at about 15 min play for 2 to 3 hours rest. After one day doing that, Ziva actualy went on the couch with the ball in her mouth, just sitting there suggesting a play time session. Before she would get on the couch, hide her head behind the cussions and fighting when told to get down. Now I just have to say down, when she has 4 on the floor I mark it and give a treat....I can do that four or five time then she doesn't persist.....till the next time lol but at least there are no more confrontations and she actually uses the couch to communicate that she needs to play or else she will burst....she associates what it takes to interact with me besides arguing.

She uses her line that she has on to play with the cat. She takes it in her mouth and waves it above the cat's head. She doesn't try to brake the poor thing in two bitting its back anymore.

She releases pretty much instantly what ever she has in her mouth on command and in exchange for a treat. Even when playing tug, she could be pulling and having this playfull growl, if I say "leave it" she will.....

The food issue is not cured if I may say it that way, it is controled by her eating in a secluded area where she doesn't feel threaten and in October Willie and I will discuss how to address this issue.

The pulling on walk has pretty much diminish by itself with the prong but since a few days ago she tested the limit where she could go until feeling uncomfortable by the prong.....my home work on that is to walk in zigzag when she does that, not harshly, but that indicates to the dog that she has to stay focuss on me....2 walks doing that and the ditch doesn't have much interest it seams.

She potty in ereas I suggest 95% of the time on walks now....peeing always, pooping not always. She even leads me to spots I usualy tell her where to do it.

Recently, Ziva has showed not liking to much when I fill in her holes she dug up.....I filmed 2 episodes of that and sent them to Willie. The one with the shovel is definitaly play language, the one with my foot we will discuss today in our meeting. The first video was not clear enough so I had to send a new one and did that last night.

So now the behavior Ziva needs to work on are:

- Dealing with the dog next door. I have some work to do about that. Ziva is not allowed to have unsurpervised time in the garden. So with the prong on I should start to correct her when the puffy white dog comes in the corner and tease her. I have to review with Willie today about that, I am not exactly certain how to deal with that.

- The jumping when excited greeting people. Now she is told to lay down....she tries her best but the excitment is to great she can't stay down long.....with me after I leave for a while, she greets me jumping but I am successfull to have her stay down....mind you it takes a lot of work for her to stay down.....with my husband and strangers it is much harder.....

- Not to react to other dogs barking behind their fences on walks.

- The food issue but that is for later.

Stay tuned for updates lol....and please if you think of anything that might help the progress Ziva and I are making, I would looooove to read them.

au revoir et merci

Thanks to Willie's dedication & your Devotion, things are certainly IMPROVING with Ms. Ziva !!! I look forward to following your continued PROGRESS here, Solange

I am so pleased for you and your progress with Ziva, having Willie working so thoroughly with you every step of the way has been an amazing opportunity for you.

Good on you for persevering with your girl, I admire you devotion and tenacity, she is a most fortunate wee dog, and it is clear from your writings that you love her very much, and are determined to do the right thing by her.

Your's and Willie's sheer hard work is obviously paying off.

Kudos to you

Good on Willie. Good on you.

An interesting journey is in progress.

Good stuff.

I had friends switch breeds to a Rottweiler because a Kuvaz was too much for them.

They're on my short list to own, if I live long enough....

Many many thanks everyone for your congrats, your support and interest.

Without the devotion and expertise from Willie none of that would be happening for sure. Willie has a plan and I follow it to a T. We address the problem one by one and they seem to all fit together as the results of one solution comes and help the dog to work on the following one. Ziva's understanding of each of one help her to understand what ever is brought to her step by step. We are making a foundation that is clear to the dog at a slow pace where Ziva has the time to get one item at the time and we move on from there to the next one. Eventually Willie thinks that the dog will react well to the food issue she so strongly experienced a month back. I have no problem with going slow if that is what the dog needs to process it all and comprehend it. I have no desire to solve a problems fast if it meens to stress the dog and develop other issues. Slow is fine with me and even though Willie seams to think that we are going slow...the results are coming fast. I am very HAPPY how it is going.

As for Ian's comments about the tug and keeping the drive in the dog....it is exactly what we do not want to do. Ziva has unusual high pray drive for the breed and her pray drive is what makes her difficult to handle. We are not taking the drive out of her we are teaching her how to control it. Stopping the tug play while she is still engage will go against the work we are doing. Putting her away while she has still the pray drive at a high level will not teach Ziva to not react upon her impulse and urge. She is responding beautifuly that way to leave the tug on demand and re-engage when told......she is learning to sit or lay down during the game....that is teaching her to control her pray drive. BEAU-TI-FUL.!!! Ziva won't be a competition dog. She is to become a family pet, fun and safe to be around. That is what is expected of her nothing more.

We are not dealing with her as we would our normale GSD, or Lab or Doberman. She will be working in an other fashion, like pulling cart and sleigh and be a member of our family.

yesterday I mentioned about a video where I fill the hole she dug up with my foot and waiting on Willie's opinion on it.....well I am happy to say that it is play....but again with a high pray drive.....so no dominance aggression from Ziva's part. So that means that we are going to keep working with her and have her control it.

For the dogs we come accross our walk barking in their back yard I am to stop as soon as Ziva spots them and shows signs of having her full attentions on them, have her sit and go back a few feet......calculate the distance where she first showed the signs and walk back toward the dog and see if she will show the signs within less distance and so forth. I am to take an other route if she seems not wanting to pay attention to me and only to the dog. We will do that and evaluate her reaction and come out with a plan how to deal with that. The idea is not that Ziva will be able to deal correctly only with the dogs on our daily path but every dogs she will come across what ever the environment she is in. Hope that this explaination makes sense....it is hard for me to detail everything in English.

I will start to reward the dog with tug play instead of treats....see how that goes.

Cheers and have a grrrreat weekend everyone!