A week ago Rocky (7 month old GSD, not neutered) got introduced to my other two dogs, Lady and Max (1.5 years old, GSD and Aussie mix, fixed).

Here's the pack:

From left to right: Rocky, Max and Lady. They've only known each other for a week.

http://imgur.com/nVvI77Z

And here's Rocky:

http://imgur.com/rkt0wp7

Rocky got weighted today and came in at 91 lbs. He is big, strong and wants to play. The other two are now tolerating him in play for anywhere from one to five minutes. Then hair goes up on their backs and if I don't control things it turns into more of a brawl than anything else. No hard bites, squealing or anything like that.

Rocky seems to want to mess with Lady the most. Almost as soon as I let them out into the yard he'll go over to her and play-bite the top of her neck. She seems interested in playing but he just seems to be too rough for her. He'll put her down, get on top of her and play bite like normal puppies do...until she gets sick and tired of it. She actually pulled a muscle on her right front leg and is limping, which has created a bit more of a hair trigger on tolerating Rocky.

I know they've only known each other for a week but I am a little frustrated. There is no way I can let the three be in the yard without supervision. To some extent both Lady and Max are a bit scared of Rocky. For example, if he is laying on the floor in front of the TV while we are sitting on the couch both Lady and Max are hesitant about coming over to the front of the couch and generally walking near him. I don't really know how to handle this aspect of things.

Eating is another source of frustration. Lady and Max always ate together and out of the same bowl. With Rocky's introduction they are hesitant to go over to the bowl when he is eating. I got a much larger bowl (guessing 1.5 ft diameter) so that there's plenty of room for all to feed. I realize this might take time. I just don't want Rocky to bully the other two and for Lady and Max to be fearful of him. He is not being aggressive, he is just being a huge puppy who wants to rough-house and the other two are smaller and older and just don't care for that.

Yesterday I decided to feed them in the yard rather than inside. I brought the bowl out. Had all three sit-stay and not touch any food until I allowed it. I then hand fed all three of them. They were all laying close to each other in front of the bowl being fed and I kept the peace. I did this in the morning and in the evening and it worked well.

I've been walking Rocky a couple of miles a day in the early morning. As soon as we come home I let him go out in the back with Lady and Max, always with me supervising and controlling the "volume" of the interaction. I usually have to stop and down-stay all of them every five or ten minutes in order to keep things from escalating. Today I decided to walk him out to the back on leash. With this I was able to give him a correction as soon as he went for Lady. This got things under control right away but, of course, isn't allowing any play to speak of.

Any thoughts on controlling and improving their relationship? In the house they are great. They lay around and rest, often inches from each other and sometimes even touching each other. The conflicts are always in the backyard.

The other issue is that Rocky is mouthy. Boy does he like to communicate with his teeth. No clamping down at all. Full mouth around my forearm, very exited, not a single mark.

So, I'll say he has a very soft mouth --which is good-- but, frankly, I'm getting tired of it. Yelping only works part of the time. Sometimes it gets him more excited. "No" also works, sometimes. I've seen suggestions about carrying around a toy to offer-up when the nipping happens. My situation is that I've removed all toys from the house and the yard in order to prevent conflict between the dogs. If I now introduce a toy for Rocky it could create conflict. How should I handle this?

He is super-social with people. I have yet to see him bark at people, dogs, cats or birds. He is friendly with the kids, total strangers walking down the street, at Home Depot, the vet even friends and family visiting. He is also great with doggie encounters. He doesn't get exited and doesn't pull on the leash. He just wants to meet them and whines.

I am going to visit the local Schutzhund club meeting on Sunday and see what develops.

Looking for advice on both the pack relationship and nipping aspects.


Thanks!

Maybe i am a whacko, but i don't tolerate any hand playing, or even playing with other dogs in that way. My dog has always done fine playing with toys between me and her. And even that sort of playing is extremely controlled, practically a training session.
Maybe i am mean, but i don't see why she would need to jump all over another dog or mouth and any of that, ever.
And no way would i let another dog topple her over. That probably would break her trust that I can control the situation always. And with MY dog, if i loose that, all hell would break loose, i could imagine..
Anyways, sorry to rant about MY dog...

It sounds like more than just play with dogs not passing directly in front of each other, the way you describe the eating, and pulling muscles.

I would start feeding them from separate bowls. And not let any dog sass or rough house anybody, ever.
I wouldn't worry about the toys. Maybe give them a toy individually when kenneled, or when training of course they get to tug and such.

There's a lot here, but I'll start.

Each dog should have his/her own food bowl. IMO, a dog that is afraid/intimidated about whether/when they will get to eat, or enough to eat must feel that the pack leader isn't a very good provider or protector. You're also giving away some of your power to one of the dogs. Instead of the food coming from YOU, this more dominant dog is deciding on your behalf when the other pack members get to eat. He is the one giving away the food, not you.

As far as the play-fighting/play-biting/dominance posturing. I have a 5-dog household, and I simply don't allow it. Ever. To any degree. It's not fair to a weaker pack member to not feel safe in their own home (where's the leader?) This kind of posturing only happens if some individual is "auditioning" for the role of boss. At my house, that role is filled. By me. "Letting them work it out among themselves" is never a good idea.

"Being a puppy" isn't an excuse to be rude or aggressive, especially to established pack members. They shouldn't have to tell him to back off--that's your job.

Everything you are saying is spot on, Brianah.

Martin, the human (you) is in charge here .... NOT the dog. You need to be the pack leader, starting right now.

No dominant posturing is ever allowed in my house. No pack member is terrorized (or even made anxious) by another one.


And separate bowls, BTW, is the bare minimum. No dog is allowed to even approach another's bowl. A shared bowl is a very good basis for a bad fight. This is a pack of three, and is very unlike two. (I'd never have two share a bowl, either, but multiply that by a million with three.)

YOU are creating a MONSTER!!!!! You need to read more here about introducing dogs & about raising a strong breed dog & about pack structure & multiple dogs in a household. 3 is a BIG difference from 2!!!

You are going to be very sorry if you continue the way that you are going. Not only for the dogs' sake, but also the way that you are allowing this 'pup' to interact with you.

I see Tracy was posting while I was typing. :-)

Martin, you've received really good advice here. I'm glad you posted.

 Quote: Alexander Jones

Yesterday I decided to feed them in the yard rather than inside. I brought the bowl out. Had all three sit-stay and not touch any food until I allowed it. I then hand fed all three of them. They were all laying close to each other in front of the bowl being fed and I kept the peace. I did this in the morning and in the evening and it worked well.

***

I've been walking Rocky a couple of miles a day in the early morning. As soon as we come home I let him go out in the back with Lady and Max, always with me supervising and controlling the "volume" of the interaction. I usually have to stop and down-stay all of them every five or ten minutes in order to keep things from escalating. Today I decided to walk him out to the back on leash. With this I was able to give him a correction as soon as he went for Lady. This got things under control right away but, of course, isn't allowing any play to speak of.

Both of these incidents you describe are the RIGHT idea. (and you've already seen that they work.)

In both cases you're taking an ACTIVE role as the pack leader. That's what your older dogs want...and it's what Rocky needs (because right now, he's a bully.) All three of these dogs need to feel that they have an equal place in the pack. And they all need to be sure that you (and not Rocky) is in charge.

The leader provides all resources (everything belongs to you--food, toys, beds, space, affection). And the leader is the only one who gets to provide corrections.

Eventually, you won't have to be such an active leader/peace keeper. Rocky will eventually get it. But until he does, you have to step up your leadership game. Fair, Firm, 100% consistent.

Thanks for all the input. All valuable.

I feel I need to clarify that this isn't my first rodeo. I've owned GSD's for 16 years. My last two died two years ago. A short while later we got Max and Lady. Not full-breed GSD's but my wife fell in love with them. They are absolutely fantastic dogs. Great with the kids.

I spent two years doing Schutzhund training with my prior two GSD's. So I get the pack leader business very well. My male (Simba) was 120 lbs. If you are not recognized as a pack leader with an animal like that you are toast.

That said, this is my very first experience bringing an older dog into an existing pack. I have always gotten my dogs at eight to twelve weeks of age. When you bring them up from that young there's plenty of time for everyone to learn how to behave.

I've also not done any serious Schutzhund training in about 14 years, so I am having to research and learn a lot of stuff. I am going to a Schutzhund club meeting with Rocky on Sunday. We'll see what happens.

And so my issue is that of having zero experience integrating an older puppy into a small pack of older dogs.

The play-fighting doesn't really bother me that much so long as it remains play fighting. My sister brings over her dog every so often. He, Max and Lady get along brilliantly and have a ball in the yard. From chasing to play wrestling. No issues. Ever. I mean, that's normal puppy behavior.

My guess is that Rocky did not spend much time with other dogs as he lived in a single dog household before I got him. This probably means that he needs to learn how to behave and play with other dogs.

Today I kept him on leash during all contact and things were perfect.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who have successfully integrated a new dog into an established pack. If you only have one dog I can see how seeing them wrestle might freak you out. I've never had less than two dogs. Play fighting is something puppies just do. It can look horrible and violent from the outside if you are not used to it, but it isn't abnormal. Abnormal is for them to have no interaction whatsoever.

"In both cases you're taking an ACTIVE role as the pack leader. That's what your older dogs want...and it's what Rocky needs (because right now, he's a bully.) All three of these dogs need to feel that they have an equal place in the pack. And they all need to be sure that you (and not Rocky) is in charge.

The leader provides all resources (everything belongs to you--food, toys, beds, space, affection). And the leader is the only one who gets to provide corrections."



Exactly!

YOU (Martin) are in charge.

This is the only way that "social climbing" dogs are checked, and also the only way that all dogs, from the meek to the pushy, from the senior residents (who certainly deserve to have their security un-broken) to the new guy throwing his weight around, feel secure --- because they have a strong pack leader .... and no decisions, no aggression, no resource-allocation, no nothing is EVER decided by a pack member.

The new guy too deserves the security of knowing that he has no pack leader role to vie for .... that it's filled, permanently, and that he is protected and guided, unfailingly (just like all the others).

Only you have that position. You must be sure that it's plain to all pack members who is in charge.

(And as to the dog mouthing you, controlling you ..... that has to stop immediately.)

"I'd be interested in hearing from people who have successfully integrated a new dog into an established pack."


I have done this many times, with every addition to my pack.


(Like Anne and Tracy, I have a multiple-dog pack.)