3 of my dogs do the sit/down/stand stay quite long. I can go away even out of sight for a while and when I come back the still hold it. I can do lots of silly things, run, dance, jump over them, thowing a ball, putting some food in front of them etc. without them breaking the stay or steeling the food.

I have to add though: WITHOUT STRONGER DISTRACTIONS.

Because two of them like to bolt out, if the yard door opens just a bit, I've tried to proof the Sit Stay also by putting them on a long line fixed on a tree, the line is long enough so that they could run outside quite far. (I read about this procedure somewhere.) I went out to the street and absolved my silly things there. But they didn't even try to break their stay one single time.

I was so surprised about this, that now I'm asking myself if this exercise makes sense at all.

Are they aware they are attached and do they keep the sit stay just for this reason? Are dogs smart enough to know: It anyway isn't worth trying? LOL!

Or can I with further training of that sort and gradually stronger distractions build kind of an invisible barrier for them? Honestly I doubt it, because the liberty out there is too attractive.

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

3 of my dogs do the sit/down/stand stay quite long. I can go away even out of sight for a while and when I come back the still hold it. I can do lots of silly things, run, dance, jump over them, thowing a ball, putting some food in front of them etc. without them breaking the stay or steeling the food.

I have to add though: WITHOUT STRONGER DISTRACTIONS.

Because two of them like to bolt out, if the yard door opens just a bit, I've tried to proof the Sit Stay also by putting them on a long line fixed on a tree, the line is long enough so that they could run outside quite far. (I read about this procedure somewhere.) I went out to the street and absolved my silly things there. But they didn't even try to break their stay one single time.

I was so surprised about this, that now I'm asking myself if this exercise makes sense at all.

Are they aware they are attached and do they keep the sit stay just for this reason? Are dogs smart enough to know: It anyway isn't worth trying? LOL!

Or can I with further training of that sort and gradually stronger distractions build kind of an invisible barrier for them? Honestly I doubt it, because the liberty out there is too attractive.

YES, dogs always KNOW if they are "Attached" to some object -- They also know how a Leash Works & that it does NOT work if a handler is NOT holding the Other End

Puuh! So, how then can we teach them not to bolt out?
Ex. Someone rings the bell, you open the door just a gap, but one of them is so rapid and clever, she uses every opportunity to slip through.

Biggest seduction, when we come by car, are unconcentrted and open the automatic door and away she is and the second one too! The other two don't bolt out. Of course, this shouldn't happen, but it unfortunately does.

They come back though some minutes later, but for reasons of safety I'd like to avoid this under all circumstances.

Is this unrealistic?

I always put them in a sit stay before leaving for a walk and make them wait for 5 to 15 seconds, but then they are on leash. So they don't go outside before me and before I allow it. But ss you say, they are well aware they are on leash.

I read from a trainer who's opinion is, they should make the experience that to be clamped by the door. He claims that once they've experienced this two or three times, they'll never try it again.

First, I doubt even this. Second, I think it is awful. I'd never want to do this.

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

So, how then can we teach them not to bolt out?
Ex. Someone rings the bell, you open the door just a gap, but one of them is so rapid and clever, she uses every opportunity to slip through.

Biggest seduction, when we come by car, are unconcentrted and open the automatic door and away she is and the second one too! The other two don't bolt out. Of course, this shouldn't happen, but it unfortunately does.

They come back though some minutes later, but for reasons of safety I'd like to avoid this under all circumstances.

Is this unrealistic?

I always put them in a sit stay before leaving for a walk and make them wait for 5 to 15 seconds, but then they are on leash. So they don't go outside before me and before I allow it. But ss you say, they are well aware they are on leash.

I read from a trainer who's opinion is, they should make the experience that to be clamped by the door. He claims that once they've experienced this two or three times, they'll never try it again.

First, I doubt even this. Second, I think it is awful. I'd never want to do this.

1) Leash the dogs, or crate the dogs, or put the dogs behind a 2nd closed door BEFORE opening your front entrance for visitors, LOL...

2) Be smarter than the dogs when you return home by car, and do NOT use the Auto-Opener until AFTER going inside on foot & securing the animals

3) I used an Owner-Activated ecollar to train my dogs in "Doorway Protocol" -- Much SAFER than slamming their head/neck into the door-jam, IMHO

Maybe a bit old school but what I've ALWAYS done and still do to teach a dog not to bolt through a door or gate is simply trapping their head in the door/gate when they try and get out.

I absolutely DON'T mean to slam their head in the door/gate but just trap it.

Takes a bit of timing but it works.

For sure work on distractions when they are on the sit but this WILL work and no it's not cruel or hurtful for the dog when done properly.

Guaranteed they will scream and fight when caught but that's nothing more then surprise and frustration of not getting out.

Marker training is something I'll use forever but for many if not most dogs there has to be a consequence for unwanted behaviors.

Look at a couple of good catches in the door as something that very well may keep them from being killed in the street.

Another possibility is to leave them on a long line that is tied securely to something in the house or even on the front porch.

Open the door wide to give them a chance to break.

Then, knowing where the line will end, be prepared to give a firm "NO" the split second before they get to the end of the long line.

You absolutely can't be worried about hurting them a bit if it saves their life.

With a puppy this is quite easy while they are still young and impressionable but it still works for any dog old or young.

A dog we had, bolting through the front door and getting hit and killed by a car is what started me into serious dog training some 60 yrs ago.

It's still is a very vivid memory for me.

It's that serious of a situation!

Mine know that getting to go out the door is preceded by them sitting. We've been working on the door to my bed room and are going to start generalizing it to the side gate that's most likely to be left open soon. I work them together on this so far. I've found you almost have to totally reteach it with another dog involved as they see it as a different situation so I just decided to teach them together from the beginning. I move at the pace of the slowest dog. I don't use treats for this. Their reward is getting to go through the door. Every. Single. Time. you go through a door with them have them sit until it is throughly patterned in the dog's mind that to go out a door you have to sit.

You might try doing something like Susan Garett's Crate Games but with opening and closing your gate instead of a kennel. If you take that approach I would place a mat in an area that's clear of your car's path and use that as your "back of the crate" spot. It would take quite a bit of work but it seems likely that it would work. The advantage of taking the time to do it this way would be that value is built for remaining on the other side of the gate specifically when it opens so the dog decides that they LIKE staying on the other side rather then just being held there by obedience.

Here's a YouTube series on Crate Games that pretty much teaches it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HNO79bZMY

As Bob mentioned catching them with the door a few times is not cruel given the consequences of a dog darting out and getting hit by a car. For some dogs it's very effective. For others not as much. My Cattle Dog is more of a linear thinker. He does great at rote repetition learning. For him it was enough to learn that sticking his head in there without permission sucks. My American Bulldog is my creative thinker. She's an excellent problem solver. She gauges the distance I'm from the door and knows if she can chance it or not. She's much more of a challenge than my Cattle Dog is these days.

Interesting that our experience in training Bailey to not bolt out the door when we open was exactly as Bob described. The trainer that trained me taught us that little trick and it works. That, combined with marker training, has made our dog rock solid on staying where she should be whenever we open the door, either to answer it or to simply go out. It is definitely not cruel. Sometimes you have to make a lesson memorable for them to learn from it and that was one good example. Their initial little panic over being caught in the door imprints on them pretty quickly.

That said, to reinforce that lesson, whenever someone knocks, we have a routine that our dog absolutely has to follow when we answer the door. Doorbell rings, she runs up to the door or front window, barks two or three time, and we give her a "Place" command. That tells her to go to a place in our foyer at the corner of a large rug, within plain sight of whoever is at the door once we open it. With that "Place" command, she knows to remain sitting there unless called to my right side, "Right". Otherwise, she stays there until we finish our business and I close the door. I then mark and reward and party like crazy. She gets it.

It took lots of practice with my wife, with a friend, or whoever you could use to ring the bell.

This routine carried over nicely in training her to simply wait at our side when we go out with her or let her out to do her business. She knows to wait while I visually check out our yard for critters before releasing her. Makes her much more relaxed going out. Before she would just charge out, ready to confront or chase anything that was out there.

What's nice is if there is someone at the door I don't like, I can call her to my side with a "Right" command and she is there instantly. Sure makes those unwanted salesman or religious zealot visits a little shorter. Plus, it sends a message to anyone with less than honorable intentions that they have a serious dog to go through to get into the house.

Shocking! Disgusting and so disappointing!!! What an obnoxious gang are you! I don't get it. Especially from you Bob, whom I trusted so much, I wouldn't have expected such an attitude. I think, I will have to leave the Webboard or perhaps even to complain at Leerburgs.

Or as last and most recommendable option I could still remain closely connected with that wretched club. Yeh, guys, you've convinced me! Sometimes one has to re-think things. So, to all of you monsters many many thanks for answering so incredibly.

Candi: leash the dogs or kennel them or/and go inside on foot we do already. Works perfectly! Unless we commit an error. This unfortunately just happens. Clear, without intention, but that's reality. An owner-activated collar? I'd think about this, if I'd have no other strategy that works. I'm simply afraid to use it wrong. Especially with two or in the worst case 3 runaways at the same time.


Bob and Greg, yes, you're right it is a serious situation. I think, I will have to catch them with the door first without neglecting the other exercises you mentioned. To give them a few times the shock of being stuck seems to me to be the best reminder. Our automatic door doesn't stop automatically though, when someone or some dog comes in between. Such things are not available here. So we've got to risk our own butts first.

Cathy, mine also are used to wait in a sit near the front door and also inside the kennel until I've gone out first and then given them the release. Until this point it is solid, especially before leaving the kennel. But at the front door they are on leash.
Susan Garett's Crate Game is a good idea. But I can not start training this, when the front door is open. As they are outdoor dogs I can not train inside the house and in the yard we don't have other doors. But with the kennel doors, yes.

Strange enough, they've learned NOT to enter the house, although the doors are open and we are often not visible for them. No idea how they've learned this. I only remember that in the beginning I was almost always present and always walked towards them with a "Fora!" (Go outside!), when they tried to enter. I didn't reward for this. Despite of this they know and respect the invisible barriers now. Maybe I should put a bowl of food inside or something else to proof them more. But nothing will ever be so tempting as the big wide world.

Thanks again to you all!

"Strange enough, they've learned NOT to enter the house, smiley for although the doors are open and we are often not visible for them. No idea how they've learned this. I only remember that in the beginning I was almost always present and always walked towards them with a "Fora!" (Go outside!), when they tried to enter. I didn't reward for this. Despite of this they know and respect the invisible barriers now. Maybe I should put a bowl of food inside or something else to proof them more. But nothing will ever be so tempting as the big wide world".

I'm betting consistency and there being young had something to do with this.

Possibly the inside isn't as much fun as the outside either so why not stay outside.

Oh yes, the outside offers much more!