When we adopted our braindamaged Charlie, Slippie at first behaved absolutely normal. She though showed often one strange behaviour: sniffing and licking his penis. But I can't imagine this could have to do something with her attack which happened months later.

1. attack: One day we sat on the veranda all together. The dogs were underneath the table, everything seemed pure peace. Charlie sat near me and I petted him a bit. I had done this on other occasions too in Slippies presence. But this time she suddenly attacked him and hurt him badly.

Since then I never petted him again in her presence. I avoided everything which might trigger jealousy. Charlie never sits again with us together. He doesn't dare, when she's here. Bones, food only for each dog personnally in it's kennel.

It is now at least two years that they lived together again without problem. Slippie hasn't become a friend of Charlie but she accepted him. We could let all 4 dogs free in the yard and never again happened such a thing. I often walk those two together. Slippie doesn't bother in the least about him, even if he sniffs her butt.

2. attack: About three weeks ago she pounced herself on him at high speed and bit him incredibly, he needed surgery. I have no idea why this happened. I hadn't petted, nor fed him, nor spoken to him. I had left all the dogs out of their kennels as I do it every morning. Can't see the slightest difference to other days.

Has anyone a suggestion what might have been the reason for that completely unexpected and enigmatic attack? I have been thinking this over and over again. Although I can't see anything, there of course must have been some reason.

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

When we adopted our braindamaged Charlie, Slippie at first behaved absolutely normal. She though showed often one strange behaviour: sniffing and licking his penis. But I can't imagine this could have to do something with her attack which happened months later.

1. attack: One day we sat on the veranda all together. The dogs were underneath the table, everything seemed pure peace. Charlie sat near me and I petted him a bit. I had done this on other occasions too in Slippies presence. But this time she suddenly attacked him and hurt him badly.

Since then I never petted him again in her presence. I avoided everything which might trigger jealousy. Charlie never sits again with us together. He doesn't dare, when she's here. Bones, food only for each dog personnally in it's kennel.

It is now at least two years that they lived together again without problem. Slippie hasn't become a friend of Charlie but she accepted him. We could let all 4 dogs free in the yard and never again happened such a thing. I often walk those two together. Slippie doesn't bother in the least about him, even if he sniffs her butt.

2. attack: About three weeks ago she pounced herself on him at high speed and bit him incredibly, he needed surgery. I have no idea why this happened. I hadn't petted, nor fed him, nor spoken to him. I had left all the dogs out of their kennels as I do it every morning. Can't see the slightest difference to other days.

Has anyone a suggestion what might have been the reason for that completely unexpected and enigmatic attack? I have been thinking this over and over again. Although I can't see anything, there of course must have been some reason.

Well, we have been down this Same Old road before, in similar discussions already -- Bottom Line: the Attacker seriously hurt the Victim because of WANTING to do so ... Maybe a DIFFERENT motivation/trigger each & every time, so you can Never Know why in advance

This is now at least the SECOND SERIOUS fight & it ended up in the Vet's operating room !!! Christina, there is no sugar-coating the answer anymore -- These particular dogs CANNOT all be let out loose Together as one big "happy" Family ... And the solution is NOT learning to read canine minds as a Prevention against more VIOLENCE

This is all on You, my dear cyber friend -- How many more Horrific Attacks will you allow on any Victim Dog in your care, just so you can go on hoping to become some sort of highly unlikely "dog-whisperer" in the imaginary future ???

I am not being intentionally unkind, but am just "calling a spade a spade" here, purely as I see it of course.

Hi Candi, you're not being unkind at all. I know I've written about this topic before. But you must try to understand, I am worried and confused, because for such a long time there has been freedom here. That's why I'm still thinking about the reason, because there must be one. The story and behaviour of Socks and Slippie are very different even if at first sight they might seem the same.

There is no sugar-coating at all from my side. I am just searching to find a way to solve the problem, if I can and invest a lot of time for this. I'm certainly not hoping to become a dog whisperer, lol. I anyway don't believe int this. That's just TV!

The dogs are separed now, as I'm too scared, their might happen another attack some time. My main reason for opening this topic here again was because I had thought that after such a long time without attack, the problem was solved. I could not know know before it would suddenly happen again.

But of course if I'm getting on the nerves of the people on the Webboard with this, I will in future shut up what concerns this topic.

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

Hi Candi, you're not being unkind at all. I know I've written about this topic before. But you must try to understand, I am worried and confused, because for such a long time there has been freedom here. That's why I'm still thinking about the reason, because there must be one. The story and behaviour of Socks and Slippie are very different even if at first sight they might seem the same.

There is no sugar-coating at all from my side. I am just searching to find a way to solve the problem, if I can and invest a lot of time for this. I'm certainly not hoping to become a dog whisperer, lol. I anyway don't believe int this. That's just TV!

The dogs are separed now, as I'm too scared, their might happen another attack some time. My main reason for opening this topic here again was because I had thought that after such a long time without attack, the problem was solved. I could not know know before it would suddenly happen again.

But of course if I'm getting on the nerves of the people on the Webboard with this, I will in future shut up what concerns this topic.

Christina, here is my Point, for what it may be worth:

Because you have at least one seriously Aggressive Dog that WILL ATTACK at least one "innocent" dog in your household REPEATEDLY & VICIOUSLY for whatever Multiple Reasons which are UNKNOWN in ADVANCE, you simply must keep them Separated from each other...

It is NOT that "you are getting on folks' nerves by asking questions", but rather, that folks CARE about the Safety of your DOGS -- The problem is NOT "why did one dog Attack the other dog", but rather, that you have allowed a dangerously Dog-Aggro canine to run loose with other Hapless dogs on your watch ... What you DO know is Understood Now, but what you Don't know may NEVER be UNDERSTOOD Meantime, you can ONLY ACT on what you Actually Know !!!

A thousand Different triggers & a million varying Combinations of conditions may set off any Individual dog mauling incident -- The issue here is that you have at least one pet dog at home who Will Inflict all of a sudden SEVERE INJURIES on another dog for which You are Responsible ... Subjecting any Victim dog to an endlessly running EXPERIMENT of "figure out what triggered an attack THIS time around, so we can MAYBE prevent it NEXT time around" is animal abuse, IMHO.

Dogs that Display a Desire, whether by breeding, by training, by illness, by injury, by who-knows-which Natural or Abnormal cause at any given moment, to willfully Attack with INTENT to Dismember a fellow packmate simply must be maintained Separately for the Duration, at least according to my own personal ethics, my good cyber friend.

Hi Candy, thanks for your clear comment. I have told you that since this incident I have them separed. I can guarantee you I don't intend to make experiments in such a case. I wouldn't have left them together, if I had suspected this.

Although the problem is solved now what concerns the safety of Charlie, it doesn't let me stop thinking about it. Slippie is not generally an aggressive dog. There are certain situations, I'm not aware of and I'm quase non stop pondering about this. It went so long so good and it doesn't get out of my mind, that I must behaved somehow wrong without being aware of it. That's what's bothering me and why I put this here in the board. the incidentes in the past I could at least somehow comprehend. That's why we avoided everything which could trigger envy or jealousy.

Could it have been just my presence? Or just a look at Charlie, which I didn't even notice? For me it is of great importance to find out her reason for reacting like that. This doesn't mean I'll risk it again. Safety first.

I'm fully aware, that no one of you can give me an explanation from far, impossible to know without having seen the whole situation. I just hoped to get a few hints or questions about my own behavior, which could haven given me an idea to watch myself better.

Sorry, now I have come back to that topic again, although I promised to shut up.

Christina,

Like Candi said, you may never know what it was that set Slippie off.

My guess, is that when they were loose together, Slippie was being a bully towards Charlie. You probably never saw it - they can be sneaky about it. Sometimes it's just a nasty look at the other dog - I call it "the hairy eyeball" some call it a "steely eye" - and it's intention is to show the other dog that she is in charge. This time, perhaps Charlie did not respond with the correct attitude, or did not shift his eyes fast enough - and she decided to go off on him to teach him a lesson.

Managing a pack of dogs - even just a pair of dogs sometimes - requires serious study of canine body language. They can communicate a thousand things with just the set of their ears or tails.. things that we need to learn in order to properly manage them.

I know my dogs inside and out before I let them run loose together. Even when they are loose, I always watch to make sure that someone isn't getting upset or overstimulated. When I see signs of trouble, I pull that dog or put them all up for a while. It's what I have to do to keep everyone safe.

I might add that I have had a pack of at least 3-5 dogs for about 20 years and have never had a serious attack.

Kel

PS - please don't feel that you can't talk to us about your problems.

In some dogs, you just have to cough to get them going, or stomp a foot, sigh, it does not matter. A dog is reactive, your have a dog who reacts quickly and deadly. Maybe even eye contact on another dog did it. You cannot assume what the trigger was, you can only maintain the pack.
That I think is what Candi is saying. We cannot read the minds of dogs, only the behaviour we see. Btwn them you will not be able to read as quickly as they do.
Save yourself the trouble and keep them seperate, or muzzled when together. Otherwise you will imagine triggers that are not there and keep guessing. Which won't help

Don't mean to sound abrupt!

And I apologize if I seen grumpy, but I have fallen down my stairs 3 times, and have not slept yet! Enjoy your dogs, love them equally, but in their own way! You do a great job looking after them and awesome training, but never try to read their mind, you won't get anywhere!

 Quote: Becky Niedbalka

In some dogs, you just have to cough to get them going, or stomp a foot, sigh, it does not matter. A dog is reactive, your have a dog who reacts quickly and deadly. Maybe even eye contact on another dog did it. You cannot assume what the trigger was, you can only maintain the pack.
That I think is what Candi is saying. We cannot read the minds of dogs, only the behaviour we see. Btwn them you will not be able to read as quickly as they do.
Save yourself the trouble and keep them seperate, or muzzled when together. Otherwise you will imagine triggers that are not there and keep guessing. Which won't help

THANK YOU to Kelly & Becky for jumping onto this thread !!! I was beginning to feel like a Cranky OLD Curmudgeon although I wasn't trying to be short with our Great FRIEND Christina Actually folks, managing a big pack of loose pitbulls with One BRAIN-DAMAGED Dog in their midst is way "above my pay grade" to start with -- I already have my hands full with just two Rescue Dobies who, of course, came to me with their own fair share of issues due to having been strays & whatever all else contributed to their previous personas ... If either of mine were Truly DOG-Aggro with an Incorrigible Intent to RIP UP the other one over any Microscopic Mistake (whether on the Victim's part OR on My part as handler) then I would Solve THAT Problem by never allowing them to run loose together, PERIOD, and that would be the End of It.